Ex Cathedra- On I/P

(8PM EST – promoted by Nightprowlkitty)

Yup, I speak for the site.

Recently there has been some confusion about our policy on discussion of Israel and Palestine.

It has not changed.

If you wish to discuss Israeli/Palestinian issues you are expected to submit your content in advance to buhdy who will discuss it with other site Administrators and Contributing Editors and decide whether your content is inflammatory or not.


People who break this rule are subject to immediate and permanent suspension.

Umm… this is your warning.

Now you can feel free to hate me just as hard and long as you want, my ego is quite robust and I assure you it can withstand your assault.

I don’t give a rat’s ass what you think anyway.

But this is not just my policy, it’s been agreed to by ALL our Admins and Editors for a very simple reason-

Discussions of I/P almost always instantly degenerate into knee jerk apologies for unconscionable actions on the one hand and anti semitic hate speech on the other.

There are plenty of other places where you can discuss this if you must, almost all of them ruined by it.

Not here.


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  1. I deleted that diary, and thanks for the reminder on process.  

  2. Yeah, that is one thing that always turned me off about this place, the fecklessness, the holier than thou attitude of the champagne socialists, the hypocrisy of the cruise missile liberals and the abysmal failure to even allow any sort of a discussion on any issue as important as Israeli war crimes and the disastrous implications on both U.S. domestic and foreign policy.

    The stench of moral cowardice is overwhelming.

    At least Cyber Stalin Zuniga has a mega enterprise going to justify the rottenness of the jackboot stomping down on a human larynx over and over.

    Just my two cents


  3. and keep it front-paged at the top for a couple of days.

    I only found it after someone mentioned it to me.  Having something like this not visible can lead to any number of bad scenes.  Survival on DD shouldn’t be contingent on everyone reading every diary ever posted here.

    You state:

    Discussions of I/P almost always instantly degenerate into knee jerk apologies for unconscionable actions on the one hand and anti semitic hate speech on the other. [emphasis added]

    Has that happened today?  Perhaps the times are changing.

    By the way, some might consider:

    I don’t give a rat’s ass what you think anyway.

    needlessly inflammatory.

    • Edger on June 2, 2010 at 23:27

    from people who have known for as long as they’ve been here what the policy is on this…

  4. Park some of our subs off of the Israeli coast and strongly encourage the populace to revolt and do what is necessary which is regime change, shit the genocidal freaks in Israel have them off of Iran’s coast now.

    Bibi and the gangster Avigdor Lieberman and their ilk must be deposed immediately because right now this is a very dangerous and unstable rogue state with 300 + nukes that may or may not be targeted at U.S. cities.

    Let’s see some spine from the U.S. administration for change in backing down this threat to the very existence of us all.

    Regime change….nothing else.

    Or total disarmament.

    Free speech means nothing as you are going to nuke this response here but if you have children, just think of how they are going to respond to sucking in the poison of the nuclear fallout when Bibi or Lieberman take out Iran….

    Just my two cents


  5. Let’s forget the legalisms and technical wording.  An enormous event happened over the weekend.  I’m fairly tough-hided myself, though I don’t like the macho connotations of advertising it.  I was rocked, my wife was in tears most of the night, and she is no pushover either.

    I read comments and articles all day Sunday.  Millions of people were rocked.  We wanted to scream out in pain and rage.  Yes, rage.

    Then look at Docudharma, conspicuous in its silence on the matter.  Yes, there is a policy that allow I/P posts, but that policy, whether intentionally or not, seems to have had a chilling effect. In fact.  So I make two points:

    (1) If you seriously have something to say, submit it to Buhdy.  His spirit is reflected where he states in the FAQ:

    It is very hard to offend me … The official policy of Docudharma is, that if engaged in as honestly as possible, if we can eschew as much as possible attacking the PERSON behind the argument, and if we can shake hands afterwards… Flame Wars Are FUN!

    You should take him at his word.

    (2)  The policy needs to be re-examined.  If people want to act like assholes, then the admins can deal with that accordingly.  More work for the admins, I guess, but I think DD paid a heavy price for its silence.  Why is so great to scream out LOUDER over all sorts of issues, and remain silent on this.  It’s not like nobody ever acts like an asshole elsewhere on the site.

    The world situation has changed, attitudes have changed.  It’s not the same-old bullshit.  Let’s get to work creating some new bullshit.


  6. a political website you’re going to have deal with one of the main issues of our times, whether it creates rancor or not.

    And obviously, by the above comments, you have plenty of rancor because of the policy itself.

  7. I always called you out as a coward and I was spot on especially considering your Kossack winged monkeys and their censoring of my posts on this.

    Pick a side dude, because if you keep dicking around with this slaughter so you don’t have to come down off of the fence or more appropriately your liberal ivory tower you will have the blood on your hands.

    Not that it means much to you, despite what my former friends said in defense of your ‘honor’ to me you have ALWAYS been scum.

    Hey Hey Budhy D, how many babies have to be incinerated before you get a fucking clue.

    Up Yours Fucker


  8. So now DD is going to have another temblor of meta.  I love you all, but I think I will shuffle off for a while.  When the joint stops rockin, I will be back.  Be well.

  9. cause nothing. NADA.

    The meta shitstorm was caused solely by the admins of this site, and the essays would have passed barely commented on.

    Methinks the problem is not the community is irresponsible in discussing this so much as an admin makes it a huge deal.

    what was that saying about tread lightly and carry a big stick?

    Its great advice for avoiding shitstorms.

  10. I have realized that THIS is why DD shouldn’t do I/P.

    Because I knew this and wanted to rage against the particular party I always see at fault…ahem…

    I decided to got to Dkos to discuss I/P but nothing else.

    I won’t get involved in the Obama wars over there.

  11. I see now on second glance that there are numerous I/P diaries..

    All of those are approved by buhdy I assume.  But since he is approving many of these now will this not open the floodgates?

  12. Calling it your job don’t make it right, Boss.

    The policy is antithetical to everything this site ought to be about, and the reason given for this exception, if not entirely pretextual, is certainly overblown.

    Long past time for a change.

  13. This, more often than not, cuts off productive dialogue and in many cases devolves into rancor. Consequently, I see the policy of this site as a sensible way to avoid the enmity that often occurs with these issues. However, proof is in the pudding. If respectful dialogue were to become  the norm, as in other topics, I would certainly think the decision makers here would consider amending their policy.


  14. I have kind of a love/hate relationship with meta.

    Im sad to see so many of the comments in this meta essay take a dive into pissy nasty tone. I really am. You guys are some of my favorite people on the planet.

    So theres a couple of essays on the Topic In Question, with not a lot of commentary but this one goes to 117 and counting. whats up with that?

    And I see next to nothing here addressing or offering any solutions or ideas to consider to help move DD, as a site, into either resolution or alternative approach or creative thinking or self-moderating in a way that is inclusive rather than divisive.

    Its been clearly stated (several times) the existing Rule and FAQ’s. Pretty much everyone here knows and has known this is The Rule. Pretty much everyone here also knows that buhdydharma is generally loathe to run this site like a dictator, and is open to community input, insight, and considerations. In addition, he has not been around here much in recent weeks, for whatever reason (doesnt matter) so… take that into consideration and also that admins are here to do their role.

    gah. I feel like my Fifth Grade Teacher who had us all on The Honor System and by damn it worked (lol). The reason it worked was b/c how she set it up, based on mutual respect … oh well, thats another discussion. Now Im sounding like Sister Mary Shut Up. Sorry.

    Can we start over and maybe try to come at this with a different tack?

    Recent events for several reasons, seem to me to suggest that it might be time for DD to amend the Rule of seeking and obtaining buhdy’s approval/consent for I/P essays.

    Why dont we ask him to consider that, and spell out your argument, reasons, and challenge or defend them… without the b.s. insults?

    Like Andy, I dont really have a “horse in the race” or whatever but jeezuz chrrrist…. could we try to be a little more constructive here? Everyone’s on edge. Every active involved DD poster here has heart, brains, engagement. That should be a strength, not a flaw or weakness.

    Or not.  Whatever.

  15. of the site’s policy. I suppose it is good to know, although I generally avoid I/P essays and likely will never write about the issue.

    I must admit that I find the comments in this essay somewhat enlightening.

  16. I quit reading at about 100/

  17. … on anything.  I’m quite busy with other business right now.  But when I saw most other blogs were posting on the flotilla massacre, and DD was not, I felt an obligation to write something.

    So I contacted Buhdy and requested permission, stating that I objected to the policy but would pre-submit a piece on Tuesday by 5:00 p.m. eastern.  After discussions, Buhdy decided that I could be trusted to post without pre-submission, but this was a one-time situation.  I was grateful for the opportunity and weighed down by the responsibility.

    I posted at 7:00, and got some helpful comments, including one from MomCat. evem though she has stated above:

    you got wanted you wanted over my disagreement with allowing you to post your essay

    There was no flame war, or anything at all like that.  Two other DD members, Pen and Compound F, posted.  I thought Compound F’s was a bit rhetorical, and my readers know I am not particularly into that.  But the comments were tame enough, although my use of the phrase “holy cause” prompted a serious over-reaction.

    Then there was ek’s essay and things got hot.  Some comments were definitely out of line.  The only real rationale for the policy was:

    Discussions of I/P almost always instantly degenerate into knee jerk apologies for unconscionable actions on the one hand and anti semitic hate speech on the other.

    Yet in the 3 essays mentioned above, this did not happen.  The closest thing to a flame war is on this thread.

    That would call into question both the policy, and the handling of this thread.

    Since I contacted Buhdy about posting, and have never done so before, it would seem obvious that I knew the rule.  Yet MomCat acted in 5 comments as though I did not.  Edger was inspired to write:

    You’re so full of shit most of the time that I had already decided before today that you were barely worth engaging.

    Now there is no question.

    Ironic that those who don’t want flame wars are so inclined to turn vicious when pressed.

    In any event, I will be making the case to Buhdy.  Personally, I find the rule chilling.  That MomCat had wanted to block my posting leaves me even more chilled.  The sheer belligerence of ek’s essay is a bit over the top.

    To state my case, it is simply that when there is murder and oppression going on, we have not only a right but an obligation to speak out.  Anywhere.  Even if some are made uncomfortable.  To do otherwise is to commit the crime of silence.

  18. When in the course of world events unfolding does I/P stop being an issue that is considered inflammable,  and unproductive and become an integrated part of the larger unraveling of world events? It does occur to me that this policy in light of what is happening on the ground as TMC says, is but a microcosm of our countries inability to deal with the elephant in the middle east room where we are focusing our military insanity and power.

    The rule is clear, but it does not address the fact that I/P has come to DD. It is like the gusher rearing it’s ugly head and to ignore it because it is ugly and inflammatory, seems to take a chunk out of every issue it touches and right now. It is front and center as no matter how we feel or what we know on this subject it is not separable from the story we are living through. A piece of the picture missing from a blog that deals head on with the overall reality were dealing with should have the courage to be able to allow discussion of ongoing history without resorting to requiring it’s readers to ignore this charging elephant.

    I will respect this rule. I do not however like heavy handed authority it goes against my grain, actually I don’t even like light handed authority that says because I said so. Zen dictators who pick and choose which issues can be yelled about and which are to be verboten are forgetting that without this piece the puzzle makes no sense. I really love  this site for the voices that run the gamut and the freedom allowed here to opine from just about any position. I don’t always agree but have learned a lot from those I think are over the top or full of hot air, on any given issue or subject. I don’t think it’s worth losing  these people because of a rule at a time when ignoring I/P is impossible, we ignore at our own peril part of the inhumanity which afflicts the world. The flames here are but a reflection of the real fire raging in the Middle East, the fire that is not confined to I/P. It seems to rage in all of us.  


  19. There has been recent news coming out  about Israel’s massive support of South Africa during the apartheid era. Israel’s relationship to Death Squads in Colombia and other Latin American countries is also legitimate areas of interest.

    These have nothing to do with I/P , they do have to do with the state of Israel.

    My question is are essays & comments about Israel also bannable, what criteria?

  20. the i/p conflict summed up in a nutshell in a blog thread at dd

    never thought in a million years

  21. Quite apart from the merits and demerits of the policy, WHY do these discussions become so inflamed?

    My contention is that what goes on with I/P threads isn’t that different from what we see regularly.  Only more intensely.  Allow me to piss off everyone.  There is too much outrage and not enough concrete analysis.  Too much posturing and not enough attention to what actually makes a difference (and I am not a cynic about whether we can make a difference).

    And I ask myself why I am more outraged about the murder of Palestinians than the murders in Thailand or Tianenmen Square or Colombia.  And I can answer:

    (1)  Because the murders of Palestinians are DONE IN MY NAME … and …

    (2)  Because I once loved Israel!

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