Of Guns and Civility

A preface: I don’t know any of the details of what is upsetting some members of this community lately, or leading some people to declare their intent to leave.  I don’t particularly care either.  This is not a statement about any of the reasons why any individual here is upset with any other individual here.  No one has asked me my opinion of those disputes, and I have no particular feelings about any of them.  This is about the relevance of civility to political discourse in general.

One thing that I try to make clear, when discussing politics with anyone, is that at the heart of any political idea is violence.  This notion is made clear by American history itself.  A ten cent increase of the tax on tea carries with it an implication that those who attempt to evade paying the increased tax can be attacked with violence by agents of the state.  Should the evader survive that attack, they will be incarcerated for a period of time in a penitentiary where they risk violence by other agents of the state, not to mention rape and murder by sharpened toothbrush from other inmates.

Every political notion we speak of here carries with it the same implied threat and justification of the accompanying violence.  You want to increase someone’s taxes?  Well, you are threatening them with violence if they don’t pay.  You want to have affirmative action?  Well, you are threatening anyone who doesn’t comply with violence.  Behind every government action, waiting in the wings, are the men with the guns.

In light of this, I find the calls for strict civility in political forums to be somewhat absurd.  Nearly every single thing we talk about is accompanied by an implied threat of violence against those who disagree with us, should our ideas be implemented.  Most of us ignore that aspect most of the time.  But I try to make it clear whenever I write to people about politics.

This doesn’t make us bad people.  Some people need to be threatened with violence, to stop them from hurting others.  That is important, and valid.  But to suggest that we should feel overly bad about hurting feelings when speaking of how to apply violence to others in the name of political reform strikes me as absurd.  It is ignorant of the massive responsibility and moral weight we take upon ourselves when we chose to be political actors in a free and democratic society.

The stakes are really that high.  People will be killed because of what we talk about here.  Others will be dragged off in chains.  You should not be able to be civil about that all the time.  You should not have to be nice, or require that others be nice to you for you to care about that and concerned about that.  If you think that whether or not someone else is an asshole or a hypocrite is anything close to as important as who will be feeling the bootheel of government on their neck, then you need to reevaluate your values.  The conversation cannot hold the ideas of “stress positions” and “civility” at the same time.

What do you really want to talk about?

31 comments

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  1. Feel free to demote.  I’m going to a concert.  Have a good evening.

  2. All restaurants are Taco Bell…unless we act now!

    General Strike: 12-21-07.

    Resist.

    Refuse to Collaborate.

    Investigate.

    Impeach.

    Indict.

    Restore the Constitution.

    • Tigana on December 1, 2007 at 02:29

    😉

  3. around my brain like a bee trapped in a bottle for the past few days, is appropriate to post here. However since the buzzing is driving me mad, I’ll open the lid and let it out of the Pandora’s box.

    It strikes me that when one has the courage to start a ‘public’ blog, especially one that is in many ways piggybacking the disaffected from another popular site that   has in fact effected change in the poltical dialogue, but has also metamorphosed itself by engaging in the very elements of a capitalistic, ie. money making for profit endeavour rather than the pure citizen voice of a voicless minority.

    I think of the words on the Statue of Liberty today ‘bring me your poor and huddled masses yearning to be free’. Did Budhydharma think of himself as De Tocqueville when he started this blog, Thomas Jefferson, the Dali Lama, or the author of Zen and Motor cycle Maintenace, and is he in grave danger of being turned into the Oprah or Dr. Phil of the Blogosphere, where everyone who feels their personal paranoia, injustice, discrimination, pain is not being adequately addressed.

    As it turned out today, the pathetic soul who held Senator Clinton’s campaign workers hostage is suffering from mental illness and demanded attention. Over on the other site i was very early on absolutely disgusted with the fracas that broke out, some blaming it on Hillary supporters, some on Obama supporters, and on and on, most of them however blamed the wingnuts, the Republicans, the ‘OTHER’, which is exactly what racism, preudice, bigotry, ego and self abbsorption is all about.

    There  are a zillion support groups available on the internet to those who feel their personal pain and problems are not being adequately addresses. I would hope that this site presents an opportunity for all of us to learn something about ancestral pain that has been buried a mouldering in too many graves for far too long.

    If not my dear Buhdy if I were you i would chalk it up to experience and enjoy your new life south of the border. Maybe start another revolution and take America back from those who stole the land in the beginning.

    Now for Christ’s sake people, either shut up or say something that will heal our national wounds.

    I am not sure that America is moving forward today. I think it is probably time for me to get a life though and move forward.

    • kj on December 1, 2007 at 03:20

    several times, if I could.  Maybe I’ll take a comment out and  start another diary with it… (with a link, of course!) @;-)  just to keep your writing on top.

    i hope everyone here reads this. (and the link below. Life of Brian? was that it?)

     

    • psyched on December 1, 2007 at 03:47

    What a creative thought! Of course you are right. Why didn’t I see that before? That idea changes my whole orientation toward society and politics. Thank you for the insight!

    • TheRef on December 1, 2007 at 03:56

    God help us if civilization has devolved to the levels of the most extreme animal rivalries.

    Violence toward the ideas / actions of another I view as valid …in play in any discussion.

    Rage directed at another’s person is where I draw the line.

    In my opinion, civility is the art of understanding this distinction (issue v. person) and the personal discipline to refute the position of the other without resorting to personal attack. In my experience, FU and the horse you rode in on is not an effective line to introduce your argument on any issue, political or otherwise.

  4. misses the point, while making an excellent one.

  5. preaching civility 😉  Things tend to work better when I can be civil.  It’s a goal…a fair goal. But we can arrive upon any day when to be civil would be very uncivilized.  To be civil while people dig big holes and line people up in front of them and shoot them just right so they don’t have to kick them in just isn’t fucking civil 😉

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