This is my home now. May I rest in peace, .. or not.

*** Please note, that I checked with Budhy prior to posting this, and while he had not seen nor approved the actual content, he ageed that a banning that recently took place at Daily Kos, is worthy of discussion.***

Well, Markos at DailyKos has banned “ToquedeVille”, for his diary urging further examination of the events of September 11. It was NOT a CT diary (sorry, no link handy, and I refuse to ever visit DKos again). It was instead, a well written treatise urging an re-examination of the events that took place that day. If any group came under critical comment in the diary, it was the Bush regime for their well documented malfeasance before, during, and after the events. Still, Markos banned Toque. Why?

I have a distinct feeling that Markos was urged to ban Toque by a very specific group of people. This group, no matter how benign the discussion might be, if 9/11 (and certain other international issues) are a part of the diary, they (and if you look at the comments surrounding this travesty, you’ll easily be able to discern who “they” are) are there to terrorize any and all commenters, and the diarist. These people are obsessed, rude, and out of line. They have a primary interest, one I share, but I DO NOT share their fascistic methods of dealing with it. I am of them, but not one of them…. I don’t know how else to put it. And yes, I am being purposely cryptic.

This clique, a growing and powerful one, from the “front page” through the diaries, appears to be trying and control the subjects presented at DKos, and how they are discussed. They have a “primary interest” in doing so, one not everyone shares, thankfully. OK, that may seem a bit CT in and of itself, but I’ve been active at DKos for over 5 years (UID – 5***), and before that, a “Front Pager” at Democratic Underground. I am over 60, a journalism major, and former newspaperman, among other things.

I know when something stinks.

Now, this diary may seem like so many sour grapes, and perhaps this is not the right venue for it, but I am someone who cannot tolerate the “group think” that now pervades DKos, and think it worthy of protest, here, and elsewhere. If you care/dare to further zero into this matter, visit DKos and check out my latest, and forever final, comments (same screen name, “Hornito”), ….if they are still there (ie, haven’t been censored). You can also see the hundreds of comments in the thread from other people who protested this latest “McCarthyite” like action.

OK, enough of that. I have been watching this site for some time as well, and particularly Buhdy’s efforts, which I have long supported, to bring justice to the Bush cabal. Those efforts are to be complimented and encouraged. That’s why I am here, and here I shall remain. That said, I sincerely hope that I can add to the site, and that you won’t find my comments too offensive, now, or in the future.


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    • Hornito on May 18, 2009 at 2:54 pm

    later today. I’ll check in as I can, but when I return I plan on blogging away here at my new “home”. Thanks for reading.

  1. They’re nerfed to hell and gone. Any place that is this afraid of a new 9/11 investigation and condones roving(!) packs of trolls and blogthugs has no business pretending to be a responsible media outlet.

    • Edger on May 18, 2009 at 4:54 pm

    Looking forward to your essays here.

  2. at the itty bitter tangerine, and being warned that I was in danger of being banned, I went “huh? and I mean “HUH?” and decided that I would follow one of the most astute posters there, Buhdy, to his new home, DD. I haven’t regretted the decision a bit.

    From a very minor character here, be welcome.

  3. hope you find it cozy and warm here, as I have for a few months now.

    so… you’re saying theres a conspiracy to denounce info about The Conspiracy? ha ha!

    I have a distinct feeling that Markos was urged to ban Toque by a very specific group of people. This group, no matter how benign the discussion might be, if 9/11 (and certain other international issues) are a part of the diary, they (and if you look at the comments surrounding this travesty, you’ll easily be able to discern who “they” are) are there to terrorize any and all commenters, and the diarist.

    I saw some comments in open thread there last night that Inky99 was also banned. How do people know when or how someone gets ejected?

  4. thing can happen anywhere, often with little provocation.

    It isn’t just a characteristic of the bigger, more mainstream blogs.

    I am “Kos neutral”, there are some diarists I like to read and I will continue to do so. It actually doesn’t matter what happened over there or whether there was a conspiracy within a conspiracy.

    Better to post here where you are welcome and feel comfortable. Look forward to reading you.

  5. company if you leave or they ban you. Toguedeville was one of my favorite posters, his writing and content are thought provoking.  I too spent years there, it always had the  witch hunters, bully boys9and girls), but never before have I seen the majority of the site become so mired in towing the party line or so quick to demonize thought which is not LOL reality or ‘scientific’ or AGAINST THE FAQ.. They even demonize Krugman and Greenwald.

    I found myself last week thinking where am I? Funny part is the thought police are actually the most boring and stupid. When they are done with their purges who will be left and what will they all do? They do no service to democracy, but they have no interest in any discussion that encourages ‘better Democrats’ or citizens, critcal thought is gone.

    Welcome to DD. You may not RIP, but you won’t waste your time either trying to couch thoughts so as to not be banned or be forced to defend yourself because your a bad Democrat, and you just hate….. Reality my ass. Big Tent my ass.    

  6. In fact, what that diary was about was the same thing I’ve been preaching for years; that there is a difference between CT (aliens, Area 51) and an investigation where the evidence simply isn’t there, or, the investigation itself was a sham (just go read the findings and statements made by commission members).

    Too many don’t know the difference.

    • Hornito on May 18, 2009 at 6:16 pm

    this evening. Thanks for the many welcomes and comments.  

  7. not going to leave Kos, but I think you will like it around here. You will have to forgive me in advance when I disagree about 9/11 being a conspiracy, but I do promise not to be an aggressive asshole about disagreeing. We don’t have to agree on everything, after all.  

  8. Where were the enforcers, when I was trying to get myself kicked off GOS and needed their assistance?

    Maybe I should have tried another tactic.  ErrinF’s tactic worked great, but I don’t like copying.  Maybe I should have explained that I have my doubts about the official version of 9/11.  Would I be gone if I did that?  Be still my beating heart. Repeat after me: I’m not going to put up such a diary.  I am not going to put up such a diary.  Rinse and repeat.

    • TomP on May 18, 2009 at 7:48 pm

    I think you’ll like it here.  Many good progressives here.  

  9. As the FAQ memos Kos wrote for himself clearly state, the use of enhanced constructive criticism techniques has justifiably been authorized in order to protect the Kos Homeland from essays of mass destruction like Toquedeville’s.

    It’s unfair to Kos and his Extreme TR Force to call that “banning.”

    As Dana Houle has pointed out, enhanced constructive criticism techniques have saved thousands of lives at Daily Kos, maybe hundreds of thousands of lives.

    I was the recipient of enhanced constructive criticism techniques 183 times in one month, so I have some experience with this issue.  These techniques helped me to understand that Kos is the LORD, and that we should all be good children of the LORD and obey his Ten Commandments . . .

    I. I am the Lord thy God and you aren’t.

    II. Thou shalt not make any graven images of OPOL, nor of anyone else from Canaan, for they are heathens and are an abomination unto the Lord.

    III.  Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord in vain.  If you do, your descendants will suffer unto the 7th generation.  

    IV. Remember the FAQs, to keep them holy.

    V.  Honor Elise and her mother.

    VI.  Thou shalt not kill Democrats no matter how much they have it coming.

    VII. Thou shalt not commit adultery, especially with BarbinMD and Miss Laura.  They are pure and chaste handmaidens unto the Lord, and have assured me that they have never posed topless for photos.  So don’t even think about committing adultery with them.  I’m serious.  

    VIII.  Thou shalt not steal topless photos of BarbinMD or Miss Laura, in the event that several thousand such photos exist somehow.      

    IX.  Thou shalt not bear false witness against the 9/1 Commission.  Ever.  

    X.  Thou shalt not covet Dana Houle’s house, nor his wife, nor his male servants, nor his female servants, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is Dana Houle’s.      

  10. I too share your disgust at what happened with the banning and the censorship of uncomfortable topics and inconvenient truths. I don’t spend as much time here as I should, but, I suspect that is going to change!!

  11. dissentin’ voices are tolerated pretty easily here, along with bad grammar, poor spellin’, and complete gibberish.  Also undeserved vanity.

    It’s a good place for God-fearin’ patriotic folks to get together and hide from the rampant socialism destroyin’ this great country of ours.  Although sometimes I get the feelin’ that buhdydharma is snickerin’ at me when I talk about tea bags.

    The biggest problem with this web site is all the gosh darn profanity!  Gee whiz, people — this ain’t a Robert De Niro movie.  

    Also I have a feelin’ that some of the diaries here are written by liberals.

    • dkmich on May 19, 2009 at 12:30 am

    We have all noticed how the site has gotten young, childish, and out of touch. The front page diaries make me want to post “yoo hoo, anybody home?”  

    In any event, welcome to one of the nicest and smartest groups on the web.  

  12. I was, probably for rec’ing said diary, but perhaps for comments.  Anyone have any idea if there was a mass banning, or a selective banning?

  13. this GOS diary.

    I was so inspired by this essay, I just had to do it.  I had so much fun!  The most fun in a long, long time!  I’m still grinning.  I hope you all don’t miss it.  

    • kj on May 19, 2009 at 3:09 am

    i will look for your essays.

  14. And hello to all! I also came here from Kos. I don’t think I have been banned but I have respected Tocque’s writing and made it pretty clear in his diary how I felt. I also really liked inky99. Inky did push the envelope at times but he was very passionate about two things, human rights (particularly the suffering of children in Iraq, Afghanistan and of Palestinians) and the corruption of the media. Those two issues really hit home with me and I will never apologize for reccing and participating in his diaries.

    I will probably check back in from time to time as there are a few left that I do like to read (Teacherken for one) but Kos has become so frustrating. It’s just not CT or 9/11 diaries, or even I/P diaries. It seems as of late it is impossible to have a conversation about anything without people coming in and picking fights.

    The funny thing is I wanted to go someplace else but did not know where to go until the “unban Tocque” diary, where I saw others talking about this site and I wrote it down! Now that I know it is here, I echo Hornito in…Here I am…hope you will have me! Not his exact words but…. Anyway I look forward to reading all your thoughts and essays! BTW, I was not FallOutGirl at Kos, I am Indygirl there, just sick of the name. I was trying to think of a new name and Fall Out Boy was playing and it kind of fit with the fall out at kos, so I snagged it!  

  15. well, alot of things have pissed me off at Dkos lately.  I guess it wasn’t what I thought it was.  I almost feel duped.

    Hopefully, I can find a home here too.  🙂

    • quince on May 19, 2009 at 3:01 pm

    I was sorry to see your gbcw comment on dkos, so I’m happy to see you show up somewhere else I keep an eye on. 🙂

    I won’t be GBCWing from dkos anytime soon even if its occasionally tempting. I think I do a lot to create some space for others to comment as they see fit. I dunno, maybe I’m wrong and wasting my time. Maybe not.

    I hope your health is well as always Hornito. Are you in oregon now? Are you enjoying it there?

  16. I’m dotdot over at dailykos. After the banning of toque and feeling like i’m walking on eggshells over my 9/11 views (which are not the views that remote controlled planes crashed into the towers or anything wacky like that), so i’ve decided that it’s time to try out a new place. I’m so tired of the petty, rude, immature group of trolls there. And I feel like kos is the ringleader for that crew.  I’ve never been a fan of kos but it’s gotten to be too much. Never mind that one of the Fp’ers is the biggest asshole on the planet. Anyhoo, that’s my rant.  

    • dmc on May 19, 2009 at 3:39 pm

    I post there as “pragprogress” and I’m not banned yet, but Toquedeville’s diary was one of the best I’ve ever seen and his case for at least opening up the discussion about 9/11 was practically irrefutable in my opinion. In short, the diary was pure truth, no spin, no lies, no falsehoods, no jumping to premature conclusions. If that is a bannable offense, then I have to seriously think about the nature of the discussions there. I saw a comment stating that if I wanted to continue to read Toque’s work, that I was free to come here, so here I am . . .  

    One of the most salient points that Toque made IMHO was that 40% of the American people already don’t believe the Bush/Cheney story on 9/11 and if that number ever gets to 65%, the Republicans are finished as a political party. Why, then, would a site dedicated to progressive causes and elected “more and better Democrats” ban any discussion of a topic that if properly documented and promulgated would result in a real “permanent Democratic majority?”

    Yes, Hornito, something stinks.

    Now, for myself, I do not “believe” anything about 9/11. There are a number of things that I know to be true, and there are a number of things that I suspect are also true. The main thing that I know to be true is that the Bush Administration failed to prevent 9/11 and that there are things that they could have done, but didn’t, that might have prevented it. I also know that the Bush Administration, and particularly members within it, benefitted politically and financially from the events of that day. I also know that elements within the Bush Administration, and previous Republican administrations, took actions in the past that were contributing, though not proximate, causes of 9/11 (i.e. working covertly to establish Al Qaeda in Afghanistan to fight the Soviets).

    The main thing that I suspect about 9/11 is that all of the relevant facts are not out on the record. I suspect this based on the many, many unanswered questions that remain and the self-evidently compromised 9/11 Commission. I also suspect that if more facts were made available, they would not for the most part reflect well on the Bush Administration.

    Beyond that basic outline, I really don’t know very much. If I don’t “believe” anything about 9/11, however, I do believe that the more we know about the actions of our government, the better off we will be in the long-run, even if those actions prove embarrassing or worse in the short-run. For that reason, I think that investigations and reporting about 9/11 are fair game for anyone who wants to do the work to delve into it (personally I don’t have the time or inclination).

    Parenthetically, Toque is not the first Daily Kos diarist to “pied piper” me over to DocuDharma. Budhydharma is in my opinion one of the 4-5 best diarists and Daily Kos and so the fact that he’s in charge here is very encouraging.

    So, I look forward to interacting here with a new community of folks and thanks for making a place like this available us “Daily Kos refugees”.

  17. I’m more from the MyDD and MotleyMoose World. I rarely visit DKos since last year (after the infamous boycott and Dana Houle’s insults!). I was referred to the diary asking for unbanning of Toquedeville. I didn’t know Budhydharma had his/her own website. Is Edger same as Edgar08? Then it gotta be interesting.

    • on May 19, 2009 at 4:55 pm

    I may stick around a while myself 😉 You will be missed at DKos by the “other” people, myself included. At least I know where to find you now! 😀

    • bwintx on May 19, 2009 at 5:03 pm

    My 3xxxx UID and infrequent posting (not to mention tiny number of diaries) at DK hardly mark me as an Elite at the big orange place, but I have a lot of emotion attached to it because it helped me get through the last few years of the Dubya horrors. What I’ve seen there the last few days has been disturbing on many levels, and I think you have very accurately described it. Thanks, and hope your trip — both the one you mentioned and your transition to Buhdy’s blog — will work out well for you.

  18. wow, comin’ out of the woodwork! heh. I dont recognize most of you refugee newcomer’s names, as I tend to only read certain kinds of diaries and comments over there.

    Ive only been here about 3 months, and only the orange since Sept 2008. Before January 2008, I was in hiding….sorta. Basically a good thing, I dont have “history” with very many posters … like Toque, I barely know even.

    Anyway, just popped in to say welcome (again). DD is my home. And also to nudge anyone who is interested or inclined to also have a glance at edger’s site, also… (since he wont want to overpimp it himself, Im guessing…) antemedius otherwise affectionately know around here as “Auntie Em”.

  19. …for pointing to this site.  I’ve not been banned or had my status removed yet, but the day’s young on the purge.  

    I received my first(undeserved)HRs on the diary to reinstate Tocque.  The person awarding those donuts broke the rules in doing so.  Other nice people uprated my hidden comments, which I thought was very kind.

    I have HR status but rarely use it, and certainly not to punish people for disagreeing with me.  

    I think there is a clique over at the big orange dedicated to busting up the reader base.  I’ve seen this behavior before online.  I moderated a political yahoogroup of just over 700 members as the Bush Error began — where I saw just about every trick in the book used to disrupt the free exchange of ideas.

    So if you all don’t mind an Oma lurking and making occasional comments, I think I’ll just take the comfy seat in the corner.

  20. I think I’ll hang out a bit….

    • Adam on May 19, 2009 at 9:40 pm

    I found this site today on a post at another blog about the TocqueDeville banning.

    I was banned by Kos personally a couple of nights after Election Night 2004 over the images people had of CNN’s Ohio exit polling data being changed in the middle of the night.

    The lesson to be learned is life goes on just like it went on before after KOS has banned you. In spite of what some Kos regulars think, nothing shifts in the universe one way or another because of Daily Kos. It’s just another blog watching all it’s numbers shift to Facebook and Twitter.

    I hope we both find our efforts here are rewarding.

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