Winning By Losing? – The Politics Of Fear

( – promoted by buhdydharma )

Obama’s foreign policy positions have become indistinguishable from those of McCain. His campaign thus far has been virtually built around absorbing, co-opting and quieting the anti-war/anti-fascist/anti-imperialist movements.

How far do you go before winning becomes losing, and becomes just a shiny new paintjob hawked by a very good salesman?

August 26, 2008 9 min 38 sec

Naomi Klein speaks about Obama and the intellectual and political integrity of the progressive movement


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    • Edger on August 26, 2008 at 16:56

  1. No wonder I feel tweaked. This is the dilemma of the progressive? movement. It isn’t just on the net I encounter it grassroots too. He cannot bring the corporate rule to an end. He has never said he would, he is part of it. All of them are. He is however the part of our party which dates back to Kennedy the sanest and most humane version of imperialism corporate.

    I totally agree that this is not the time to as many on the left do, to back off and say winning is everything, trust Obama to do the right thing after he in office. The voices who while they support his candidacy like Sirota, yet point out this dilemma and advocate being the Democratic wing of the party are reviled as traitors to the cause. What cause? At what price wining? On the other hand to remove your self from the process and say they all suck I won’t play, just makes it easier for the status quo to go full steam ahead with their agenda. I have come to a grinding halt on the grassroot end.

    I feel the net end is self defeating in it’s insistence of adhering to the political fictions of the right out of fear of losing. A sure way to lose if you ask me. The grassroots is a little better as it doesn’t fancy itself strategists and is more in touch with people, as it has to deal with actual humans who sometimes are not as dumb as the pols would have us believe. When you hear a voter say they are the same why should I vote for Obama it would help to be able to actually have a reason other then McCain. Sorry to rant but my dilemma is pressing as Obama keeps calling me and asking me to work and send more money. LOL!    

    • Viet71 on August 26, 2008 at 19:56

    Naomi Klein is so right on, IMO.

    The idea that the Wall Street guys will get to President Obama the same way they got to President Clinton makes a lot of sense,

    Yuck.  Just yuck.

  2. …or other surrogate daddy will save our butts is patently ridiculous.  It’s too broken for that.  

    But I’d be happy if the US doesn’t self-destruct utterly any sooner than it needs to.  And Obama will help with that one.

  3. Naomi talk, I’m more impressed. She has an amazing way of taking all the specifics and weaving them into a big picture that makes alot of sense.  

    • Viet71 on August 27, 2008 at 00:13

    I’ve given Obama the benefit of the doubt because he’s black.

    Being black in America has meant being an outsider.

    Have always preferred outsiders.  Much better, more interesting folks in my experience.

    Truth is, Harvard Law grads aren’t outsiders.

    • Edger on August 27, 2008 at 01:27

    Barring some electoral catastrophe Obama is going to win in November. I think that unless the pressure starts now and grows to deafening proportions, his priority will be in danger of become that of all politicians – getting elected next time.

    I for one would like to see a movement start now that makes it undeniably clear to Obama and the Democrats that they can absolutely count on their base voting for them in record numbers in 2012.

    If and only if the things that have to be done are done and completed by 2012.

    They need to be living in stark terror for four years of losing it all in 2012 to force them to do those things, and then rewarded with a landslide for doing them, or rewarded with nothing for not doing them.

    I think it is the only way to turn the tables and for the electorate to rule them with fear, rather than be ruled by them with fear.

    It’s time for people to take charge again and use the power and the leverage they already have by voting for results instead of for promises, rather than give their power and leverage away. I think this is the only way to counteract the corporate buyoff of candidates.

    The democrats have proven for two years that they are followers, not leaders.

    They need to be led by the nose, and turned into real winners.

  4. you choose probable.

    Klein is one of the very few voices who’ve been as pessimistic as I have, and for two generations I’ve been more right about what was coming than most of the Democrats and any of the Serious People.

    In 2005 there was no presidential hope whatsoever. The new technology and the voice of the people had been crushed.

    Crushed, I tells ya.

    • Viet71 on August 27, 2008 at 17:34


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