Live-blogging House hearing on Executive Power I

It’s starting – hope you can join me in discussions here and at ConyersBlog

The hearing can be watched on the House Judiciary Committee website or at CSPAN

For some background, check out afterdowningstreet

Live-blogging continues at Live-blogging House hearing on Executive Power II

Sorry, I’m having trouble with formatting for some reason…

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  1. … and would GREATLY appreciate any information.

    Thanks, feline — this is a great idea.

    • feline on July 25, 2008 at 4:33 pm
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    I almost forgot how to submit an essay, but here we go!

    Ponies for impeachment and accountability!

    • feline on July 25, 2008 at 4:36 pm
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    House Judiciary Committee Hearing on Executive Power and Its Constitutional Limitations

    Who: Panel One

    The Honorable Dennis Kucinich, Representative from Ohio

    The Honorable Maurice Hinchey, Representative from New York

    The Honorable Walter Jones, Representative from North Carolina

    The Honorable Brad Miller, Representative from North Carolina

    Panel Two

    The Honorable Elizabeth Holtzman, Former Representative from New York

    The Honorable Bob Barr, Former Representative from Georgia, 2008 Libertarian Nominee for President

    The Honorable Ross C. “Rocky” Anderson, Founder and President, High Roads for Human Rights

    Stephen Presser, Raoul Berger Professor of Legal History, Northwestern University School of Law

    Bruce Fein, Associate Deputy Attorney General, 1981-82, Chairman, American Freedom Agenda

    Vincent Bugliosi, Author and former Los Angeles County Prosecutor

    Jeremy A. Rabkin, Professor of Law, George Mason University School of Law

    Elliott Adams, President of the Board, Veterans for Peace

    Frederick A. O. Schwarz, Jr., Senior Counsel, Brennan Center for Justice at NYU School of Law

    • feline on July 25, 2008 at 4:44 pm
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    discussing congressional powers – including that of oversight.

    Excesses of this Executive Branch authority.

    Listing abuses…the list is long

    • feline on July 25, 2008 at 4:48 pm
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    the hearings he’s had on related issues, after his statement that some on his side of the aisle have said “too little, too late”

  2. … I’m gonna try (hope I don’t get fired).

    CONYERS:  … Interrogation and rendition of detainees and others, possible manipulation of intelligence regarding the Iraq War, improper retaliation against critics of the administration incl. the outing of V. Plame, excessive secrecy by admin. … I belive the evidence on these matters is both credible and substantial and warrants direct answers from the most senior members of the Admin under oath if at all possible.

    This member, the second longest serving in the Congress, has a 40-year track record of opposing injustice by dems. and repubs.  Regardless of who is President and Congressional. majority next year, Congress and the American people will be struggling with the legacy of these excesses. By the same token, I have good friends on my side of the aisle who say we have done too little and too late.

    I would remind all of us that that in the prior congress when I was chairman, I held forums on the presidential election in Ohio, what went wrong in that election, Downing Street, hearings on warrantless wiretapping and there’ve been 2 comprehensive reports on these matters.

    In this congress, the Judiciary Comm. Has held more than 45 separate public hearings on these matters bringing in a range of witnesses including the former Atty. General, a couple of past atty. Generals and so we come here … also two heads of the Justice Dept. of legal counsel, etc.  Patrick Fitzgerald, Dept. of Justice liaison, Monica Goodling, former Secy. Of  State of Ohio, Blackwell, Douglas Feith, Ambassador Joseph Wilson, to name a few.

    We’ve pursued criminal contempt against Harriet Myers, Pres. Former lawyer and Josh Bolton, his chief of Staff in the DOJ and federal court, and we expect tto take action against Karl Rover for his refusal to obey our Judic. Com. Subpoena.  I have also been involved, as other members of Committee, opposing the spying on Americans in wiretapping phones and warranteless surveillance and have opposed manyof the modifications in the wrong direction, in my view, of the FISA bill.  Wwe’ve helped initiate numerous … and have passed legislation into law limiting abusive US Atty. Appointments.  And we’re not done yet … we don’t intend to go away until we achieve the accountability the Congress is entitled to and the American people deserve.

    … and so I conclude, our great challenge is to find a way to work together to protect these rights and develop a record and a process for addressing and correcting the abuses … a process that will stand the test of time in a manner that serves our nation and our Constitution.

    Now recognize ranking member of Judiciary Committee, Lamar Smith.

    (Lamar Smith is an ass)

    • feline on July 25, 2008 at 4:53 pm
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    he’s saying that this hearing will not lead to impeachment – he’s saying there’s not enough evidence to justify it, there’s “no criminal wrongdoing”;  he’s saying lots of things that are b.s. – well, he’s basically telling citizens what citizens think…

  3. We know bush won’t get impeached … they  haven’t proved he broke the law, this is blah blah blah blah.

    Reads an excerpt of house rules.  References to Pres. – do not permit use of language that is personally offensive towards the President.

    Yields back.

    CONYERS: Recognizes Robert Wexler of Florida.

    WEXLER:  I applaud your tenacity and courage for calling for this hearing.  Have vigorously argued immediately begin impeachment hearings.  Serious abuses that if proven would constitute high crimes.  WH accused of lying and … torture, firing US Attys., denying legitimate constitutional powers of Cong. oversight by ignoring subpoeans.  Never before in thie history of this nation has an Admin. so successfully diminished the powers of the Legisl. branch.  This must not stand.  This is not how our Founders designed our democracy.  … Pres. Bush has ordered Karl Rove, Myers, Bolton and others to simply ignore Congress by refusing to testify.  Failure of Admin. witnesses to even appear is unprecedented in the history of our nation.  Distorted concept of Exec. privilege to hide WH wrongdoings.  … most appropriate response to this behavior is to hold impeachment hearings.  (Applause).  The power of impeachment … was designed precisely for this type of wrongdoing.  Fully recognize significance of holding impeachment hearings … but when Admin. takes action that amounts to high crimes, we, the representatives of the people, have no choice … one branch carefully checks the other branches to prevent a dangerous consolidation of power.  The actions of the WH have eviscerated this balance.  This is not dem. or repub. issue — this is an American issue.  … Congress must end this disturbing pattern of behavior … only option left is impeachment hearings.  We’ve been down this road before (refers to Nixon).

    • feline on July 25, 2008 at 4:58 pm
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    Supporting impeachment

    • feline on July 25, 2008 at 5:01 pm
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    continually calls this an “impeachment hearing” – and in a derogatory tone

  4. Says no applause, let’s restrain ourselves.

    Recognizes Chairman of Crime Subcommittee, Bobby Scott of Virginia.

    Numbe rof issues we have to address, politication of DOJ including hiring and use of resources in violation of Constitution, whether or not crimes were commmitted resulting us getting into Iraq, who has authorized torture, how can we do an investigation of DOJ does not enforce subpoenas, when witnesses refuse to cooperate.

    This hearing will help us define those limitations and recommend ways to enforce those limitations.

    CONYERS: Introduces Steve King from Iowa, ranking member on Immigration Committee.

    Notice in opening remarks you used phrase “power to remove,” as I read that in my Constitution, that’s impeachment.  We are here having impeachment hearings before the Jud. Committee.  I was sitting back there in 1998 watching what is happening here.  I sat out there and I was influenced significantly by both sides of this in ways I won’t go into.

    But this is impeachment hearings .. before the US Congress.  I never imagined I’d be sitting on this side as this happened … as I watched the Bush Admin., I didn’t see anything … that we’d be sitting here.

    Here’s what’s going on.  We’ve had this parade of 45 separate public hearings.  Among them the CHief of Staff, David Addington, the successor of Scooter Libby — pretty rate one can say what Scooter Libby actually did.  Ashcroft just last week, Scott McClellan…

    ack, got to do some work … be back when I can.

  5. In Jan. of this year I requested this Committee hold hearings to develop common understanding of role of impeachment in the US and standards set forth in the Constitution … I welcome this opportunity to explore limits of Executive Power.

    I have a unique view of history of impeachment.  I served on the staff of Cong. Don Edwards during Nixon impeachment and a member of this committee during Clinton impeachment.

    The two efforts could not have been more different.

    Nixon consumed 14 months and if you add in Senate’s action, plus the evidence gathered by very active prosecutor that was voluminous, really going to issue of whether high crimes committeed by Nixon, and really the definition is rogue action that undercuts the very core system of government.

    I won’t belabor the Clinton impeach. but simply say that his actions, though reprehensible, did not undercut entire system of American government.

    Over past 7 years watched this country go down roads I would never imagine we’d go down. … those years during Repub. majority, that broad push of Exec. power was ratified by that Congress.  … I want to hear from witnesses of strategies to reverse expansion of Executive Power … It is my judgment that Bush is the worst president our country has ever suffered, making judgments jeopardizing national security, impaired our economy, diminished civil liberties of the American people.

    • feline on July 25, 2008 at 5:11 pm
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    • feline on July 25, 2008 at 5:13 pm
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  6. … blah, blah, blah, show trial, blah, blah.

    Calls this “impeachment lite,” make allegations and so the press can print accusations but leaving out hte fact we are not taking steps towards impeachment … in never never land of accusing Bush but not taking actions to impeach him … impugns him but doesn’t impeach him but may has same effect in the court of public opinion.

    Speaks of definition of high crimes and misdemeanors.

    Says it’s a “high bar.”  Says it’s a tragedy of criminalizing differences of political opinion to the detriment of this country and vigorous public debate … when we “loosely” make references to high crimes and disgreements with Pres. in context of impeachment, we do violence to the Constitution and the serious of actions which would be impeachable.

    • feline on July 25, 2008 at 5:16 pm
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    very brief, but supporting oversight – generally

    • feline on July 25, 2008 at 5:17 pm
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    the criminalization of American politics

    the Repubs (of course) are discrediting the hearing before it’s even started

  7. Oh noes, criminalization of American politics.

    Sees no credible basis for impeachment.

    Yep.

    • feline on July 25, 2008 at 5:26 pm
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    raising questions regarding whether decisions by this Executive have been constitutional – “overruling the constitutional rights of this Congress”

    Is using the Constitution as the basis for this hearing, and the questions raised – as it should be.

  8. This is not a personal but an insitutional discussion and a vital hearing.  Although Americans may be experiencing high prices at gas pump, may be concerns about torandoes and hurricanes, the economy, Congress can’t abdicate its responsibility to protect the Constitution.

    Opening words of Constitution … we the people, etc.

    … We cannot dictate as to what the ultimate outcome will be but we can take advantage of responsibilities of this particular body and this particular Congress.

    Reasons why I believe this appropriate and that we have every right to be fact finding so that we can make judgments as to how we protect the Constitution of the US of A.  It is clear in this dcoument that Congress has the right to delcare War, in Art. 1, section 8.  The resolution was not a declaration of war … (discusses whether this Admin. Went forward on a war that was not declared under Constitution, and whether the presentation violated the Const. on  how it was presented).

    Questions of torture … institutional Administration to in essence contravene international law and Constitution of the USA.  Question as to why an individual who admits to involvement in the exposing of a CIA … ROVE.

    Question fo firing of US attys. has to do with any institutional statement of relationship betwween individuals who are supposed to be beyond politics.

    Last, let me say that we have watched over a series of years, the Congress passing laws and then the laws being contravened by signing statements.  I introduced legislation about concept of signing statements contravening intent of this body.  We have the right to prohibit the funding of signing statements .. is executive overruling the legislative.

    • feline on July 25, 2008 at 5:32 pm
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    I missed the last (Repub) member’s statement

    To summarize, the Dems are supporting the hearing, and the Repubs are not…at least so far…

    • feline on July 25, 2008 at 5:39 pm
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    a historical view of accountability of Representatives to the people – future hindsight

    • feline on July 25, 2008 at 5:43 pm
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    Americans concerned about whether members of Congress are upholding their oaths of office – absolutely!

    Americans wonder about the allegations of abuse, why they’re being blocked, lack of compliance, accountabiity…

    At least two high-ranking officials have reached the standard (for impeachment).

  9. On Jan. 20, 2009, the next pres. and vp of US will stand before American people and take an oath of office, to preseve, etc. Constitution of the US.  This commitment and obligation is so fundamental to our democracy that our founders described that oath … and also proposed removal of Pres. And VP by impeachment.

    … What this Congress does or chooses not to do in furthering investigation of serious allegations against this admin. And if just cause is found to hold them accountable will impact conduct of future pres. Perhaps for generations.

    Those who would say holding this hearing, whether laws were broken, is frivolous.  No task more important for this Congress than to seriously consider whether our leaders have violated their oath of office.  … No pres. or congress has authority to override that document whereby we the people conferred upon the branches of government limited and defined power …

    Over past several years serious questions raised about conduct of high-ranking officials … respect for rule of law, principle of checks and balances, and fundamental freedoms of Bill of Rights.  American people are in doubt as to whether admin. Officials have served their oaths of office.

    Americans want to know whether our officials broke the law to justify their invasion of Iraq.  Is Bush WH planning to attack Iran?  Are their private conversations being listened to?  Torture?  They wonder who authorized torture and rendition, whether this Admin. Will forever change what it means to be an American.

    Our efforts to hold WH accountable were  blocked at each step.  List of Cong. subpoenas refused to comply … Karl Rove defied Cong. subpoena to testify on allegations of politication at DOJ.

  10. Due process of getting facts on table are critical … these hearings are critical because of the fact gathering process they require.

    Powers unused are lost.  And our Constitution contemplated a 3-part system of government in which each would hold the other accountable … does  NOT contemplate a branch of government deferring or acquiescing to another.  If that happens, our system breaks down, we could end up with an imperial presidency.

    Congress must hang on to its powers.  Constitution doesn’t give Congress an unlimited menas to hold accountable … power of purse … but at the end of the day the most powerful tool is impeachment.  That’s how you get the Executive to pay attention and to balance Constitutional framework.  Doesn’t work when one branch acquieses to another.

    Lays out the charges … Iraq, etc.

    • feline on July 25, 2008 at 5:47 pm
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    Fact-finding important

    “Powers not used are lost”

    Need for restoring balance of powers – power of the purse – impeachment the most effective way.

    • feline on July 25, 2008 at 5:47 pm
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  11. Our country ha been at war in Iraq and has occupied the streets and villages of Iraq for 5 years, 4 months and 6 days.  Has caused deaths of 4,127 American soldiers and deaths of as many as 1 million innocent Iraqis.  Costs upwards of $3 trillion and main contributing factor of destruction of  our American economy.

    Enters resolutions into record.

    Primary justifications for going to war outlined in the legislation which WH sent to Congress in October of 2002 have been determined conclusively to be untrue.  Iraq was not continuing to threaten national security of US, not developing WMD, not actively seeking nuclear weapons capability, did not have willingness to attack US, had not demonstrated capability and willingness to use WMD, could not launch a surprise attack against US – therefore there was not an extreme magnitude of harm that would result to the US and its citizens from such an attack.  Did not justify use of force by US to defend itself.

    Iraw had no connection w ith 9/11 or Al  Quaeda … possessed no WMD to transfer to anyone.  Had no WMD and therefore had no capability of launching suprirse attack against US and no capability to provide them to international terrorists who would do so.

    However, many members of Congress relied on these represntations from the WH to inform their decsion to support legislation authorizing use of force against Iraq.  We all know present and former colleagues said that if they knew then what t hey know now they would NOT have v oted to permit an attack upon Iraq.  The war was totally unnecessary, unprovoked .. question for Congress is this: what responsibility does Pres. and members of this Amin. to have for that war?  

  12. … questioning Admin. competence in preventing 9/11.

    • feline on July 25, 2008 at 5:58 pm
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    up now, Maurice Hinchey – intelligence briefings were given prior to 911 – why prevention didn’t happen needs to be explored by Congress –  

  13. Talks about checks and balances … Bush Admin. Refusal to provide information to Congress and the Amer. People, insistence on acting in secret, more dangerous and sinister … control of information stifles dissent.  Insulates Admin. From challenge.  … informed criticism is the stuff of Democracy.  Democracy dies behind closed doors.

    … every Committee has been stiff-armed by Bush Administration in exercise of its oversight powers.

    … we must restore balance of powers between Congress and President regardless of who is President.

    Speaks of bills he is introduced on powers of Executive Branch.

    • feline on July 25, 2008 at 6:11 pm
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    discussing the courts’ powers, congressional powers, executive powers –

    abuse by Office of Legal Counsel in Dept of Justice, extension of [excessive] executive power –

    quotes Madison regarding checks and balances –

    must resist encroachment of executive power to defend public rights –

    • feline on July 25, 2008 at 6:16 pm
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    A Republican – discussing misuse of signing statements- endorsing H.R. 5993.

    • feline on July 25, 2008 at 6:18 pm
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    this is (hopefully) where the statements could get very interesting…

    • feline on July 25, 2008 at 6:28 pm
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    from panel 2 –

    Summary – framers put power of impeachment in the hands of Congress to protect Democracy – can’t be shrugged aside – protecting Democracy against administrations and officials who run amock – “prima facia” case of impeachment –

    – systematic refusal to obey the law

     sites examples – FISA, torture (no statute of limitations when death occurs), war crimes – laws have been systematically ignored

    abuse of executive privilege – improper use was basis for impeachment of Nixon – when used to shield activities of executive branch – Cheney’s interview – deceptions re Iraq – subverts Constitution – Congress plays essential role, rampant deception by administration

    What is to be done?  very late in the session of Congress, options limited

    most appropriate is impeachment inquiry – send message to administration, educate public, gives members of administration an appropriate way to respond

    • feline on July 25, 2008 at 6:32 pm
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    this hearing is so important, I’d love to exchange comments with more of you!

    • feline on July 25, 2008 at 6:36 pm
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    current administration is setting precedent for future administrations – Congress must get a hold on this now

    • feline on July 25, 2008 at 6:43 pm
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    disclosing truth vital, restoring balance of powers

    discusses illegal spying, torture, human rights violations, breach of trust, war crimes, misleading congress, violations of treaties…

    Remedy?  IMPEACHMENT

    urges Congress to enact legislation to stop signing statements

    Enact legislation to forbid invasion of Iran

    limit States Secret Doctrine

    severe punishment should be provided for the use of torture

    vital – comprehensive consideration by Congress of accountability

    way to get to accountability and deterrence is appointment of select committee (like Church Committee)

    • feline on July 25, 2008 at 6:49 pm
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    doesn’t see grounds for impeachment

    doesn’t see unitary executive theory as grounds for impeachment

    doesn’t see Bush’s actions as impeachable – interrogation, signing statements, manipulation of intelligence – not abuse for personal reason, but for reasons believing he was defending the nation [yuck!  what bogus crap!]

    Impeachment is radical remedy when power has been used for (venal?) purposes

    • feline on July 25, 2008 at 6:56 pm
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    heard that reference to “Bush” and “Cheney’ were discouraged

    changed the names to protect the guilty

    executive branch has vandalized the Constitution, destroyed checks and balances – founding fathers fashioned impeachment as remedy

    Bush’s claim of war power – feels can invade Iran without congressional authorization, can arrest/kidnap/kill anyone who’s a “terrorist” – hasn’t used this authority in U.S. yet, but we shouldn’t wait for it to potentially happen

    Rule of Law – gathering foreign intelligence, violated FISA, violated limits, frightening power, has not renounced, shields from oversight

    Watergate brought down Nixon because a counsel discussed conversations with President (John Dean) – that was reason why we restored the rule of law, because conversations were discussed in testimony (despite claims of executive privilege)

    • feline on July 25, 2008 at 7:01 pm
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    administration declassified certain intel on Iraq in order to gain support from Congress, certain portions were deleted – what could possibly be worse and more criminal than the Bush Administration keeping this information from Congress and the American People?

    Words from George Bush’s own mouth that will be shocking – contrasting this to Clinton impeachment hearings

    First degree murder charges should be brought against members of this administration

    How dare they do what they did?

    APPLAUSE!  

    • feline on July 25, 2008 at 7:10 pm
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    remind ourselves of what happens to civil liberties in war time – seems to be defending the actions of this administration based on actions of past administrations during “war time”

    ideological/partisan division in the country – astonished at tone of deliberations, calls it “demented” – rest of country isn’t in this bubble describing the president as Caligula –

    [my summary – downplays crimes of administration, mocks concerns of this hearing]

  14. (There never was a declaration of war.)

    • Alma on July 25, 2008 at 7:12 pm

    Great job girls!!!

    Got up late but I’m here now.  I started with Buglioso (sp).

    • feline on July 25, 2008 at 7:17 pm
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    recommends that Congress and new President sign bill setting up bi-partisan investigatory commission – doesn’t recommend impeachment, thinks it’s too late, timing would make it impossible to have full investigation, would make it partisan

    need full truth for accountability, might embarrass people – but great strength of America is to confront mistakes

    Conclusion – remember conduct that undermines our values arose in the context of seeking to protect country from further attacks – quotes Louis Brandise – to fully understand these issues should bring country together

    Church Committee – the U.S. must not adopt the tactics of the enemy, means are as important as the ends –

    An investigation would bring our country together, core fundamental values can provide the people of this country and of the world a (fairer?) life

    • feline on July 25, 2008 at 7:18 pm
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    Hi, Alma and Tahoe!

  15. By abandoning our values and adopting tactics of our enemies, we’ve given them power

    Also undermined necessary cooperation from our closest allies.  Colin Powel said just 2 years ago “the world is beinning to doubt the moral basis of our right against terrorism.”  After rush of support after 9/11 we’re met with disappointment, caution and resistance from even our closest allies.  British now refuse to cooperate with us on intelligence matters because they fear it’ll be used in renditions.

    Full story  needs to be told … and the consequences.  I recommend something different – that the Congress and the new president sign a bill that sets up an indpendent nonpartisan investigatory commission looking at what’s been done wrong, right and remedies for wrong.

    I don’t recommend impeachment … too late … could have been considered earlier, and the timing now would make it not only impossible to have a mature and responsible and detailed investigation but would also make such an investigation more partisan than it ought to be.

    We need to know from an investigation the full truth so we do not repeat mistakes.  We need to know the accountability for those who have committed wrongdoing and the full truth, because to produce the truth begins to restore America’s moral luster which is a great part of our strength.

    Now you could say that putting out the full truth will embarrass the country … it might embarrass people, but the great strength of America is to remain a people who confront our mistakes and resolve not to repeat them.  If we do not do that we will decline, but if we do, our future will be worthy of the best of our past.

    First thing is we must remember that the conduct undermining our values and sapping our strength arose in the context of seeking to protect the country … but just as Brandeis warned, at times, the greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by means of zeal, well meaning but without  understanding.  These issues transcend partisanship – indeed to fully understand these issues should bring Americans together.

    Development of erroneous Constitutional theories has made us less safe.  Again, there are some words that the Church committee uttered 32 years ago no less true today.  The US must not adopt the tactics of the enemy.  Means are as important as ends.  Crisis always makes it tempting to ignore the wise restrains that make us free, but each time the means we use are wrong, our inner strength, the strength that makes us free, is lessened.

    I believe with a sober investigation into what has been done we can actually bring our countrytogether and that we can show that when properly respected, our Cosntitutional structure and our core fundamental values can, as they have for so many years, provide the people of this country and the world, the hope for a better life.

    • feline on July 25, 2008 at 7:19 pm
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    my fingers are tired, and I need more coffee, if someone else could please document this witness’ statement?

    thanks!  brb…

  16. What will Congress do about it?

    This is about maintaining structure of our government.  All future presidents will start their presidency where t his one leaves off.

    I cannot escape the visceral pain and indignation that we who served our country in combat find our own governmetn committing war crimes or crimes against humanity.  It’s appalling to hear as a veteran … torture … it ruins the integrity of the intelligence you gather.  Any victim of torture will eventually say whatever their torturer wants to say.  For us veterans … we volunteered our  very lives for this republic.

    Yet I hear there is not enough time … will hurt one party or another party .. not enough political will.

    When our founders signed the Declaration, they weren’t worried about how much time there was, etc., they were just worried that they were going to get hanged by the neck – yet they did the right thing.  Now gentlemen, it is your turn to stand up.

    Einstein: the world is a dangerous place not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing.

    (I think this was Elliot, correct me if wrong)

  17. Only remedy … is the remedy of impeachment because no one can interfere with it.  Important thing about impeachment is that there’s no executive privilege.  … You ask the President or VP to give you contents of FBI statement, they don’t do that, it becomes an impeachable offense.

    You may not be able to finish, but you can start … send a signal to future presidents … this can only be a floor and god help us if that’s the case.

  18. Constitutional clock is running down.

    We have heard even though this is not an impeachment inquiry, this committee has the awesome responsibility to decide wehther or not to conduct such an inquiry.  It’s not a responsibility of myself as a private citizen.  But if in fact the decision before this Committee and the people is constitutional inquiry or silence, then by God I choose Constitutional inquiry.

    • feline on July 25, 2008 at 7:29 pm
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    my video feed froze up for a minute

  19. Grateful you are conducting these hearings.

    Is admin. Proceeding in good faith or on a fraudulent basis for god knows what nefarious  motives?  I don’t think there is evidence of those kind of motives, and I think in particular the minority report makes pretty clear that this Admin. has cooperated with this committee to a great extent.  So really what you’re looking for (cf. Pence) is an absence of good fath and I’m not sure you’re going to find it.  I think this admin. has done the best it could under difficult circumstances.  (Bleh)

    • feline on July 25, 2008 at 7:34 pm
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    are the witnesses of the second panel responding to one anothers’ opening statements?

    • feline on July 25, 2008 at 7:38 pm
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    Conyers threw Cindy out?

    • Alma on July 25, 2008 at 7:38 pm

    Did anyone here?  GD Repugs.  

  20. Atty. Vincent Bugliosi

    Summarize what I believe Presser said, he feels Clinton having consensual sexual relations and lying is worse than the  Bush admin. Taking this nation to war on a terrible lie, causing incalculable death and suffering … and I’d ask Presser what would allow such a conclusion.

    Bush’s words: 1/31/03 before invasion of Iraq … bush and tony Blair met inoval office with 6 top aids incl. Blair’s chief foreign policy officer.  Afterwards Manning prepared memo stamped “extremely sensitive’  Bush was so worried about failure of weapons inspectors … talked about 3 possible ways to provoke war, including “fly U2 reconaissance aircraft over Iraq painted in UN colors” and if Hussein fired on them, that would violate UN resolutions, and would justify going to war.

    Bush is telling the world Hussein is imminant threat … but behind closed doors George Bush was talking about how to provoke Hussein into a war.

    May I draw an inference from this?  If George Bush honestly believed Hussein was imminent threat … the thought of provoking Hussein into a war would never, ever, ever have entered into his mind.

    By taking us into unlawful war, all of our killings, by our soldiers, are murder.

    • feline on July 25, 2008 at 7:43 pm
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    to start a second essay – if the comments here get too long, let me know…

  21. Claims he heard nothing that represented an impeachable offense.  No evidence presented that suggested we were lied into war.  Where has this man been during this hearing?

    • feline on July 25, 2008 at 7:56 pm
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    to past administrations is insane…

    just because Congress didn’t intervene in the past doesn’t mean they shouldn’t have, and it certainly doesn’t mean they shouldn’t now!

    • feline on July 25, 2008 at 8:05 pm
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    Bi-partisan cooperation was what made impeachment work with Nixon.

    • feline on July 25, 2008 at 8:13 pm
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    have been asking questions of witnesses –

  22. I hope we’ll be live blogging Impeachment soon too!

    • Alma on July 25, 2008 at 8:22 pm
  23. …for feline, Alma, tahoebasha3 and especially NPK and her amazing, flying fingers!

    Thanks all!

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