Sick Of Move On

I think Move On sucks. I have all year, starting with their backing of the House Iraq Supplemental last Spring. I thought the title of their “General Betray Us” ad was collosally stupid. And now I am completely sick and tired of all the teeth gnashing over the Senate resolution condemning Move On’s stupid ad.

The Netroots truly suck. Geekesque said it best at the Big Orange Satan’s place yesterday:

The following Senators voted YES to end the Iraq debacle and voted YES on the irrelevant bill:

Ben Cardin
Diane Feinstein
Herb Kohl
Pat Leahy

and this Senator voted Yes to end the Iraq debacle and refused to vote on the irrelevant bill:

Barack Obama

These Senators voted against ending the Iraq debacle and voted NO on the irrelevant [Move On] bill:

Jeff Bingaman
Carl Levin
Jack Reed

Now, there has been plenty of rage directed towards Senators Cardin, Feinstein, Leahy, and Obama.

None has been directed at Bingaman, Levin, and Reed.

Judging from the Netroots reaction, apparently the Netroots feels that it’s more important to pander to the Netroots and avoid hurting Moveon’s feelings than it is to end the Iraq debacle.

If that be the case, why should people take the Netroots seriously?

Wake up. . . .


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    • Armando on September 22, 2007 at 1:36 am

    The DFHs are getting played so bad by Move On.

    Their fundraising is up natch.

    Fuck everything else. Move On is all that matters.

    • Turkana on September 22, 2007 at 1:39 am

    it’s iraq moratorium day, but the netroots seems not to notice.

    tomorrow, maybe ann coulter will have said something nasty, and we’ll be able to obsess over that.

    • documel on September 22, 2007 at 1:43 am

    Freedom of speech  and freedom from fear of exercising free speech, demand support of the messenger, if not the message.  Anybody invited has the right to speak at Columbia, and anybody has the right to place a print ad in the Times.  If you disagree, you don’t understand the constitution.

    Finally, when you agree with Lieberman and pals, become suspicious.

  1. hasn’t?  Letters like this to MoveOn from soldiers and their families convince me that MoveOn does not suck:

    “I have given a son to this country. My brother, my father, my uncle have all served honorably and bravely. I am a loyal American. I am outraged and sick to death of the tactics this administration uses to try to silence dissent to a war that is unjust, built and maintained on lies, political power, and greed. I was content to let others fight more loudly, but no more.”

    “I am a prior soldier who served in Iraq for 13 months, and am now an expecting mom with a husband who is deployed in Baghdad. I don’t think I can ever forgive the Bush administration for the lies that tricked America into this war and hurt my family so badly. I am ashamed of those American politicians who would condemn an organization for practicing the Freedom of Speech that so many soldiers have died for.”

    “As a US Navy veteran and an Iraq war veteran of over a year I want to ask, What has happened to us? What has happened to our voice? Where is this country going with stopping free speech and free press? … Every time I think of the long nights I had in Anbar remembering what I was fighting for, well here it is….”

    “I’ve had three nephews serve since 2002, one of whom was killed in Anbar Province. I have a fourth nephew at Quantico training. I want this war over before he is deployed and before any more of our soldiers are sacrificed.”

    “Three members of my family are military. Two Marines have served in Iraq and an Army Lt. is deploying in November. If we had all spoken out when the administration used General Powell perhaps we would not be in this mess.”

    “As a Marine I served for many reasons but one of them was to allow people the freedom of speech, whether I agreed with it or not. Wearing a uniform does not mean someone isn’t a shill, is spewing propaganda, and downright lies. MoveOn has every right to buy an ad and say what they want about a public figure. This administration has lied to us, deceived us, misled us and when posed with a challenge this is how they respond?”

    After Bush smeared MoveOn yesterday, Americans contributed half a million dollars to them by midnight.  They don’t think MoveOn sucks either.

    Neither MoveOn nor the Netroots have been as effective as we need to be, but the fact that we’re being attacked so viciously by this criminal government and its goons shows that they are afraid of us.

    They should be.

    We’re getting stronger every day and we’re going to keep getting stronger because 3 out of every 4 Americans are fed up with those assholes in Washington. 

    • snud on September 22, 2007 at 1:57 am

    breakdown of the votes and don’t disagree at all with his/her point. Keith Olbermann nailed it last night too.

    Couple of points:

    Congress must move on past the Moveon ad and while one can certainly disagree with the wisdom of it, the Dems shamefully kow-towed to the ‘Pugs, kissing their asses yet again – and that wasn’t Moveon’s fault.

    Apart from the usual Democratic spinelessness perhaps a small silver lining is that because of all the publicity, Moveon is raising money like gangbusters. And I’d rather they raise it than the ‘Pugs.

    This is money that will hopefully be used a little more wisely in future ads because at the end of the day Moveon isn’t our opponent; the guy in the White House and his evil, ork minions are.

    Those are the same orks that’ll be running against our candidates next election and they’re falling on their asses when it comes to raising money.

    Of the two choices though, I’d have preferred that our representatives tell the republicans to fuck off and get over it when that stupid condemnation bill was brought forth and instead unite to bring our troops home – as opposed to filling Moveon’s coffers.

  2. what a ridiculous waste of time.

    im going to call my senator’s office and ask how he felt about big al’s furniture prices…(not biden, he didnt vote…but carper voted “yea”)….

    moveon’s campaign was really silly and wasteful, but at least it didnt cost tax dollars.  all the senate did was give moveon more publicity.  and waste war-stopping time.  and, oddly, undermine the perceived ‘strength’ of the military.  to insinuate that a general needs their expressed support because someone called him a name is asinine…even for the senate.

    how do YOU feel about big al’s furniture prices??  😉 

    • snud on September 22, 2007 at 2:10 am

    We should condemn that Head-On ad.

    Now I’m behind that!

    • robodd on September 22, 2007 at 2:15 am

    I’m not criticizing anyone calling out Bush or any of his bullshit no matter the means.  Nothing else seems to be effective in causing any change.  In such circumstances, nothing can be fairly called bad strategy or stupid. 

  3. should.

    They are a total distraction, and a money suck.

    • plf515 on September 22, 2007 at 3:01 am

    The MoveOn ad was stupid.  Of course they have the right to publish such an ad.  But just because they have the right to do so does not mean it is right to do so.

    The proof that the ad was stupid?

    well, aside from the fact that it convinced no one who wasn’t already convinced, and annoyed a lot of people who were on the fence, now the blogs are consumed with discussions of MoveOn, when we ought to be talking about Iraq, kleptocracy, health insurance, and so on.

  4. was stupid.

    I’m ambivalent about MoveOn in general.

  5. I see no reason in hell why this whole battle rhertoric is fought and determined by a LUNATIC minority. My problems with move on are the opposite of Armando’s, actually maybe the same, (don’t know what the March thing is about) but I was glad to see the ad. Glad because it where ever it originated took the dialog to a level needed when dealing with what we have here. The Democratic Party refuses to step up the rhetoric so if an outside group does it let the chips fall and we are left with what we have a bunch of lily livered cowards and/or knaves. Who gives a rats ass at least somebody said it. 

  6. We have a pro MoveOn essay and an anti MoveOn essay on the front page at the same time. I’m curious from both sides about something, so I’ll post this comment in both essays to see if someone can help me out.

    I am very confused.

    MoveOn places an ad that many on our side think was great. Others think it sucked.

    The silly Republicans thought they were going to ‘trap’ the Democrats by introducing a non-financial, non-binding state-of-the-Senate bill that means absolutely nothing in the larger scheme of things. It doesn’t mention MoveOn once, but everyone knows it is a critique of the MoveOn ad.

    The bill passes. Historians will look back at the bill and wonder what the fuck was going on that day, but will otherwise not give it a second thought.

    Now, we are deciding that on this issue we are going to cut off Democrats, every single one of them, from funding. Because a bunch of them decided to pass the silly Republican resolution.

    This week, the Democrats brought three bills to the floor in an effort to stop / slow down the war. Each one of them was blocked by the Republican minority. Each one of them had overwhelming Democratic support. Each bill failed.

    So, now after this week where they at least tried something, we’re supposed to rally around MoveOn and cut our financial support to the Democrats.

    Am I missing something here? Does this make any sense?

  7. will be lost in the thrill of poo slinging but I disagree with you Armando. Why is this wrong on the side of move on? Why do we play our battle out on the reality that has been created by the ones who have betrayed us all, and they are not always Republican’s. Betray us is what going on on all levels.

    If a usually wimpy advocacy group (probably due to low contributions or participation) says the truth he’s a chicken shit ass licker, which can only be contradicted by a insane love of all things military, and even then he’s suspect. Why do you think this is so stupid?  What do you advocate other then trying to get a body politic to act rationally when they can’t because they swim in the same pool as the Bushies? Playing on their field is stupid. Other then the unmovable and the congress we all knows the reality presented is wacked.

    • timber on September 22, 2007 at 4:55 am

    I could say, I give up–I am sick of DailyKos, sick of the netroots, sick of blogging, sick of my Church, sick of the Dem Party, sick of my country–I give up.

    Guess what—the enemy will win.  You surrender.

    Unless, you have another alternative to MoveOn or the Dem Party to fight the radical right wing GOP who is destroying our country and not allowing to bring the troops home—then MoveOn, DailyKos, netroots, the Dem Party is all we have.

    The thing is to shout louder and continue the pressure.  We have come a long way from 2003–in fact netroots have chrashed the party–not the insider yet but — it will come–because–guess what we are on the right and the public is with us.

    But instead of utilizing the big megaphone that dailykos has or MoveOn has–then how are you going to get heard?

  8. ding ding ding

    I haven’t read all the comments, but I did want to say something about MoveOn as an organization, and argue that they do not in fact suck as you suggest.

    I was very actively involved before the 2004 election through what is now DFA, through the local Democratic Party Headquarters and yes, through Move On. I participated in several of their get out the vote actions locally and will tell you that of the three organizations they were the most effective and efficient. I believe they will be just as effective and efficient in the same kind of activities in the upcoming elections and find it rather lame to write them off because of the NYT ad. 

      • documel on September 22, 2007 at 1:58 am

      You don’t win arguments by name calling–you just expose your own weakness.  Moveon did not scream fire in the theater, they criticized a government official, and that’s the power of free speech.  My credentials on free speech are quite strong–I taught it.

      People can oppose Ahminejad’s appearance, and Columbia can withdraw its invitation, it’s just not a governmental issue.  Using your reasoning, you would agree that Columbia should be censured by the Senate for offering the invite.  Are you the real Armando?

  9. If not Funny…

    • d3n4l1 on September 22, 2007 at 4:09 pm

    therefor MoveOn sucks.

    A very serious problem in critical thinking that gets repeated over and over again.

      • Armando on September 22, 2007 at 4:26 am

      But the Dems suck on Iraq right now.

      That is a different issue than Move On, where I think your analysis is on the nose.

      BTW, conflicting FP posts is what you should like about this place.

    • d3n4l1 on September 22, 2007 at 5:40 pm

    But you don’t build anything.  You just demonstrated here.  You take data, rip it apart, but don’t build shit with it.  No bridges, no trust, no structure.  This is not the way to build concensus.  What you’re doing is like breaking, thinking you’re a special cue ball, and then you’re really not able to get any of your balls in without getting your opponents balls in as well.

    If you look at what I have said about DailyKos you will see that it has been about the troll rating, and the the extent of the systemic hinderances it creates there in their goal of uniting progressives.

    “But a little self awareness would go a long way for you. imo.”  I am not hated accross the Internet like poison ivy.  I have a much easier time reconciling my differences with people than you do.  A walk in the park actually.

    “A denizen of pff is in no position to make that critique.”  Again, trash the whole person for one small thing against them.  As I’ve said, you’re nothing more than a n00b to me.  You don’t really know what you don’t know. 

    “You attack me for my facility with facts and argument.”  It is much more effective than you attacking me for where I choose to hang the d3n4l1 moniker at this time.  Yours is ad hominem.  Mine is an actual critical argument.

    First Step? heh.

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