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Friday Night at 8: Meta

by: Nightprowlkitty

Fri Jul 10, 2009 at 17:00:00 PDT        
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Photobucket
(Image taken from The Institute of World Politics advertising their course, "Political Warfare: Past, Present and Future")

I got the real estate for this short time, so I'm gonna put meta on the front page.  Oh, the thrill of power!  Oh, the temptation to abuse it and then ... the sweet surrender!

Heh.

There's personal blog enemies and then there's the blog political opposition and sometimes the two overlap.

Personal blog enemies smear your character, challenge your honor, try to bait you into swerving from your topic!  Oh noooooooo!

It's a test of character to have these kinds of enemies.

And these are the enemies that are most difficult to deal with when it comes to political opposition.  They will take the side of Hitler rather than agree with you!  Yeah, breaking Godwin's law, yeah, I'm edgy.

And this is part of politics, sometimes I think it's ALL of politics.  It's so personal.

Nightprowlkitty :: Friday Night at 8: Meta
How many of our politicians make public decisions based on personal pique?  Yeah, they have their lobbyists, they're bought and all, but there's times they do have some discretion even with their overlords, but they're so pissed off at us DFHs that they just vote against us because they don't like us.  I think of Senator Feinstein's recent remarks, stuff like that.

Well at least it factors into things, I'm sure it does.

So, blog enemies, a good test of character.

On most community blogs it's considered bad form to "get personal," but the fact is it happens all the time and "getting personal" is always in the eye of the beholder.

It's also considered bad form to call out posters (other than famous ones like Digby, et al.) on other blogs or in other essays, in other words, carrying on a fight to many venues, sometimes known as hijacking, other times known as big fat flame wars!

Yet it happens anyway.  The personal becomes the political.  The dynamic of communications becomes the political issue itself.  And I imagine what that must be like if you actually have real power, like if you're a Congressional Representative or a Senator or a Supreme Court Judge or the President or the Attorney General, on and on all the way down the hierarchy to the petty bureaucrat who can mess up your day if they don't like the looks of you.

My two cents?  I think it's a bad idea to call out posters by name, but it will happen just the same.  I think it's less bad to bring up particular egregious attitudes or positions of individual posters as representative of a political obstacle and expound on that (i.e., gossip).

The difficulty is maintaining the balance, as none of us want this blog to be a reactionary rather than creative force.

I am being selfish, too, in this view, as I find it enormously irritating when, as I'm fighting, my personal enemies play the smear of the cabal at Docudharma and try to paint me a rabid slavering goon who has no individual identity as a blogger.  I am beginning to think that's a silly thing to be irritated over, though.  There is a certain cachet in being thought of as rabid and slavering.  At this point I may as well accept that to some I shall always be a DFH and stop taking it personally.

So this is my meta, inspired not just by recent events but by my growth here at Docudharma.  I find the community here to be extremely individualistic when it comes to meta -- I've rarely seen any huge consensus on "civility" or anything like that, and that always kind of amazes me.

*****

A perfect breezy day in the Big Apple, lots of tourist families walking about midtown.  Happy weekend to all.  

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hey, but, Npk, I got a proposition (4.00 / 10)
I want to take down Bush/Cheney. You want in?

The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?' - 1984

[ Parent ]
Are you ... (4.00 / 10)
... propositioning me?

Oh my!

I was in before you even asked.


[ Parent ]
devious mind (4.00 / 6)
Sweet

The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?' - 1984

[ Parent ]
Troll! (4.00 / 9)


Reality is the result of war between two rival groups of programmers,

so....Roar Louder!!!


Republican! (3.50 / 6)


Reality is the result of war between two rival groups of programmers,

so....Roar Louder!!!


[ Parent ]
Ratings abuser! (4.00 / 5)


Reality is the result of war between two rival groups of programmers,

so....Roar Louder!!!


[ Parent ]
Chief cabalist. ;-) (4.00 / 6)
Hey wait a sec - I never knew there was a cabal at Docudharma till today. Does that make me a cabalist too?

[ Parent ]
ha ha I was just gonna ask (4.00 / 6)
are we a cabal? lol


No justice, no peace.

[ Parent ]
Do we roam the tubes (4.00 / 7)
cabaling up and swarming people?  

[ Parent ]
Swarm! (4.00 / 6)
Swarm, damn it!

swarm?

ah hell.


[ Parent ]
Sworm? (4.00 / 4)
The Cabaliscious Cabalites of Sworm. ;-)

Obviously I need a break from this computor.


[ Parent ]
Sort of (4.00 / 4)
What the hell have I been saving all these pitchforks and torches for? You think it's easy keeping these things sharp?

snark

P.S. Homeland Security FUCK YOU!  

The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?' - 1984


[ Parent ]
even worse! (4.00 / 4)


Reality is the result of war between two rival groups of programmers,

so....Roar Louder!!!


[ Parent ]
That's kind of creepy! (4.00 / 4)


[ Parent ]
Depends (4.00 / 10)
We have been accused of being an evil, despotic, totalitarian gang of UPRATERS at Dkos....roaming the halls of Naranjastan actually....gasp....giving people mojo!

(Which somehow subverts democracy)

Have you now or did you ever ....UPRATE SOMEONE at Daily kos?

Be careful, if you answer yes, you too could end up being stood against a virtual wall and be virtually riddled with virtual bullets from the virtual guns of the Committee to Stop Uprating!

Reality is the result of war between two rival groups of programmers,

so....Roar Louder!!!


[ Parent ]
I did, but (4.00 / 6)
I kept quiet about it.

I'm not as dumb as I look, you know...


[ Parent ]
damn right (4.00 / 9)
I uprate anybody I feel is being targeted by the goon squad. Or anybody I feel is honestly offering an opinion that is considered traitorous by the thought police or fearful. Shatter those who brand what they don't want to hear troll. I've watched appalling things happen virtually to people of good spirit who seek to stop the defense of the indefensible. Enough after years of hearing this craq passed off as  PC, bs I say it is personal. It's what these people come down to as they have no other argument in the end . Uprating is a positive thing troll rating the gag that stops the voice you fear. The one that doesn't share your reality. Course their are some trolls who need to be dispatched as they are just that trolls.    

[ Parent ]
Me, too - and I wonder why.... (4.00 / 1)
There's one guy there who can't peep without getting 4s.  

[ Parent ]
so insane to (4.00 / 1)
keep blaming the Republicans who are a mess with no head anymore. The 'we will be a minority again' cries are mind boggling as the reason the Democrats became a minority in the first place is they offered nothing more then a corrupt wimpy version of the Republicans. Reality my ass!    

[ Parent ]
What did I walk in on? (4.00 / 8)
This is a meta diary? Guys, guys, what if the kids see this!

Besides, you're gonna wake the neighbors up!

; )

The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?' - 1984


[ Parent ]
There is no personal life in the Revolution! (4.00 / 7)


Reality is the result of war between two rival groups of programmers,

so....Roar Louder!!!


[ Parent ]
A+ answer (4.00 / 6)
Well said

The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?' - 1984

[ Parent ]
Somebody has to wake the neighbors up. (4.00 / 9)
They're the problem. Why did you think we YELL LOUDER 'round chere, anyway?




[ Parent ]
technical foul (4.00 / 6)
Npk gets a free throw and the next posession.

The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?' - 1984

[ Parent ]
Now I know I'm exhausted... (0.00 / 0)
had to do a double-take: read that as "technical fowl."

Heh...got any fried chicken?  I'm hungry.

One function of the income gap is that the people at the top of the heap have a hard time even seeing those at the bottom. They practically need a telescope.--Molly Ivins


[ Parent ]
well crap (4.00 / 7)
I have a thing or two to say here, but Ive been trying to watch Olbermann, w Turley, re the IG Report "Breaking News".

here's emptywheel on the topic.

No justice, no peace.


Seems to me ... (4.00 / 7)
... the news is coming fast and furious lately, what with the CIA and now this.  Mcjoan has been writing some good stuff too.

[ Parent ]
Meta? (4.00 / 9)
Do I have any Me-ta...Me ta...Me too?

I am curious about how my columns have made the Rec List at Daily Kos three weeks in a row, but have gotten 4, 4 and 8 comments respectively here.  And 5, 2 and 2 Recs.

Curious I am, what with the increase of users we have had here (2029 now).  I ask myself if it is possible that I have offended all of these people so much that they won't read what I write anymore.

When all is said and done, what really matters is whether or not you are happy.


Even worse!!!! (4.00 / 8)
They take your excellence for granted!

Reality is the result of war between two rival groups of programmers,

so....Roar Louder!!!


[ Parent ]
I'm guilty as charged (4.00 / 2)
Roybn. I read you, look at your art and don't really comment very much. I will try to not take your excellence for granted, and pay for what I get at your table.  

[ Parent ]
Not at all, though (4.00 / 7)
I usually will see someones diary first on DK and if I can't comment there because your TipJar is lost in the thread, I try to catch people who crosspost here.

Cheers to you anyway, Robyn. My mother's name is Robin, so you automatically get my love.

I'll be sure to say hello more often.

The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?' - 1984


[ Parent ]
I realize that my time of 6pm eastern... (4.00 / 4)
...on Fridays is not ideal.  It sometimes gets lonely between 6 and 7:30, when I post at DK.

When all is said and done, what really matters is whether or not you are happy.

[ Parent ]
Some of us (4.00 / 1)
work until after midnight on Fridays & can barely think after 10 hours of standing & dealing with the general(ly horrible, right-wing, non-thinking) public.

Sorry, Robyn.  You write so well.  But sometimes all I can manage to appreciate Friday night is a photo diary...all the brain cells & all the muscles in my body want to collapse at once.

One function of the income gap is that the people at the top of the heap have a hard time even seeing those at the bottom. They practically need a telescope.--Molly Ivins


[ Parent ]
It the personal aspect and the troll hunters (4.00 / 9)
is why I don't think I will be posting my essays there and why I will be posting them here.

I am glad I had a chance to break Godwin's Law with my first essay.

I always like what you have to say at DK.

Thanks for you being you.


I also ... (4.00 / 6)
... like what you have to say, and thank you for your kind words.

[ Parent ]
I just ignore it. (4.00 / 7)
I don't mind grilling a club dragging troll, but I always find your diaries interesting on Orange. I crosspost to both sites and keep my more radical notions away from the feeble mind of the group think of the BB. Screw them.

If anything you are in a perfect position. we need strong voices lile yours to push the Overton window Left the whole trick is knowing just how far you can push people.

The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?' - 1984


[ Parent ]
How's about this for a little meta (4.00 / 6)
One of my favorite things about DD is the total individuality daily on display. It is in the diversity of ideas where we can sift through and seperate the wheat from the chaff. Besides, ever site has a vibe. Each place has a feel, based on content and layout, but there is an ambiance you find on a site, and white gives you a much more open field than orange or red or blue.

Be easy with one another. Share ideas, and POV and news and your passions and your lives. That is why I am here, not to agree, but to learn.

That is why I am here. To learn and to share ideas.

Be good to one another,

better, be excellant to one another.


The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?' - 1984


Went to the eye doctor today. (4.00 / 7)
My eyes have never been a big problem, but today was different.  When told to read the chart, I saw:

             C I A M I C

He told me to read it again, and I read it the same way.  He asked if I was having personal problems in my life and I asked WTF would he ask me that, who are you really?  I walked out.  Crazy.  


That is SO zen! (4.00 / 5)


Reality is the result of war between two rival groups of programmers,

so....Roar Louder!!!


[ Parent ]
k (4.00 / 10)
okay, well, its NOT Dunbar by the way.  Olberman, WORST person'd Gov Perry for appointing Dunbar to State Board of Education and I SCREAMED then ran to the google and he is wrong thank gods.

phew, scared me.

Okay where was I? ha ha

Heres the thing. I dont give a shit if someone mentions in passing, snidely or with a major eyeball roll, a poster from orange (or anywhere else I guess) in a specific context, to emphasize a point... its not a major offense. Truth is, with that particular wolfpack, Ive been half-tempted more than once to email buhdy and just ask him to hand over his Hit List directly to me, since I am quite terrible with names, so Ill know who to avoid. You think Im kidding. :-/

Well, one minor meta thing that's bothering me is strictly DD.  We do have a fair amount of overlap, some of us do and some do not, still post and comment and UPRATE over at DK. Fine.

Here's my peeve:

When someone "new" wanders over to DD from DK and starts to comment here, could y'all be a little more friendly?!?!?!? Okay, dont be friendly, but can you refrain from attacking them? At least for the first few days?

I strongly suspect the crossover will increase in the next few months. Some people who still now like Obama and hold out Hope... are slowly but surely beginning to "see the light".  When they do, do you think they're gonna say THAT out LOUD at dk? No, they come here. But they test the waters. Maybe they're undecided still. But showing up at DD indicates to me they are looking to read some other points of view at least. Please dont get all nah nah nu boo boo, we told ya so, in their face. Okay?

PS Not "you" NPK, just certain people. Sometimes.

No justice, no peace.


And no sexism! I'd prefer to not see that type of diary (4.00 / 3)
at the top of this rec list here.

[ Parent ]
LOL (4.00 / 4)
oink

I can think of way more worthy topics to get outraged about... today.

The time it took me to type this comment has just spent my year's quota that Im allowed to spend focusing on Ann Coulter.

No justice, no peace.


[ Parent ]
I signed up a while ago but (4.00 / 9)
I feel like I have been treated fairly well.

And I haven't noticed this exclusionary in crowd here quite yet but maybe I haven't been paying enough attention.


[ Parent ]
Well ... (4.00 / 5)
... even when the view isn't about Obama, there's sometimes a disconnect when the Daily Kos culture tries to transplant itself here.  There's enough similarities that it seems it would be simple, but there's also enough differences between DD and DKos that the kinds of behavior you think would be here aren't here at all.

So people can be offended not so much because of how they're treated but because their expectations aren't met in the way they expected.

Hope that makes sense!


[ Parent ]
First of all.... (4.00 / 12)
Jon Stewart:  Is there any way you can yell loud enough into your TV at home for the people inside it to hear? Because I tried real hard last night.
---The Daily Show
-

Second of all...

No, they come here. But they test the waters. Maybe they're undecided still. But showing up at DD indicates to me they are looking to read some other points of view at least. Please dont get all nah nah nu boo boo, we told ya so, in their face. Okay?

No.

.

.

.

LOL

>>

While obviously we want to be excellent to everyone, especially n00bs who we want to seduce into our subversive web of the real....

If we are not real, even for the purposes of seduction.....well, we are not being real.

So, by those lights, we should just be ourselves, anyway.

And we can trust that, because who we really are when we are being real...is real AND nice and welcoming......to others who are real.

But if someone comes here and really pisses off our real selves even though we are really nice, we should not be OVERLY worried about really expressing our real feelings.

If they are really real they will grok the realness.

That being said....I agree completely!

.

Hey!

.

Vodka works!

Time for me to stop blogging!



Reality is the result of war between two rival groups of programmers,

so....Roar Louder!!!


[ Parent ]
Please excuse me (1.00 / 1)
for just popping in here after laying low for so long. But I think there is something implied in your comment that I'd like to address.

Its captured best here:

Some people who still now like Obama and hold out Hope... are slowly but surely beginning to "see the light".  When they do, do you think they're gonna say THAT out LOUD at dk? No, they come here.

What's implied there is the point of view this site has developed pretty strongly since the election.

While it makes me sad that I don't fit in anymore, I also think that's fine.

But I also think that the problems you're addressing would be best served by somehow claiming that up front and then letting new folks know that they're welcome to take that on - but they do so knowing what they're getting into.  

Almost everything you do will seem insignificant, but it is important that you do it. Mahatma Gandhi


[ Parent ]
I can only infer when you say that you don't fit it anymore, (4.00 / 11)
you are indicating there is some sort of anti-Obama point of view here.  I think that is totally wrong.  It seems to me most people here think in broader terms relative to what the real forces are behind our government policies and agendas and how to address those issues.  It's not ant-Obama in my opinion, it's trying to fix the mess we're in while realizing Obama can't do it.  

[ Parent ]
You can infer that if you like, (2.00 / 6)
but all I did was quote someone else here.

I don't know how much you know about me and my political beliefs, but my lack of feeling welcome here is definitely not connected to a naiveté about the real forces behind our government policies and agendas.  

Almost everything you do will seem insignificant, but it is important that you do it. Mahatma Gandhi


[ Parent ]
OK, well I don't know that story and was only inferring. My bad. (4.00 / 2)


[ Parent ]
Please don't try to speak for me NPK. (1.00 / 3)


Almost everything you do will seem insignificant, but it is important that you do it. Mahatma Gandhi

[ Parent ]
Why don't you speak for yourself? (4.00 / 4)
You said you feel unwelcome here. Why do you feel unwelcome?

[ Parent ]
I think that's pretty (1.00 / 4)
obvious by what's happened in this thread.

I'm not sure how it all got so out of hand. I think several of us have said things to each other in the heat of the moment that feel difficult to get beyond right now. I'm sorry for that.  

Almost everything you do will seem insignificant, but it is important that you do it. Mahatma Gandhi


[ Parent ]
You hypocritical lying piece of shit (4.00 / 3)
Finally, I had to leave because on top of all that - it became anti-Obama headquarters (at least in my opinion). I just got defensive all the time and couldn't take it anymore.

Link... http://www.dailykos.com/commen...

You are not excused and you are not welcome here.

Go away you dishonest treacherous liar. You were given a place of honor here, and every opportunity and all the respect possible and you repay it by smearing this site.  

Reality is the result of war between two rival groups of programmers,

so....Roar Louder!!!


[ Parent ]
i hope (4.00 / 1)
the recent unpleasantness will cause you to reconsider some opinions you formed previously.
maybe now you will be able to see the truth in what some people were trying to tell you.
kisshugs
♥~

come firefly-dreaming with me....

[ Parent ]
You know exactly how it got out of hand. (4.00 / 5)
You're not that stupid. It got out of hand because of the games you're playing.

[ Parent ]
. (4.00 / 4)
Photobucket

Reality is the result of war between two rival groups of programmers,

so....Roar Louder!!!


[ Parent ]
Not your bad at all. (4.00 / 3)
see my response to NL.

Reality is the result of war between two rival groups of programmers,

so....Roar Louder!!!


[ Parent ]
You hypocritical lying piece of shit (4.00 / 3)
Finally, I had to leave because on top of all that - it became anti-Obama headquarters (at least in my opinion). I just got defensive all the time and couldn't take it anymore.

Link... http://www.dailykos.com/commen...

You are not excused and you are not welcome here.

Go away you dishonest treacherous liar. You were given a place of honor here, and every opportunity and all the respect possible and you repay it by smearing this site.

You are a reprehensible lying hypocrite and I have lost ALL respect for you.

Please do not come back...and if you think I will respond to you are are as mistaken as you are dishonest.

It is a relief to finally be done with you.  

Reality is the result of war between two rival groups of programmers,

so....Roar Louder!!!


[ Parent ]
Understand and agree. (4.00 / 3)


[ Parent ]
OK, I get the message (1.00 / 3)
and will be gone.

But honestly, I don't see where I've lied or been hypocritical or played games. What you're quoting is something I've said here almost verbatim. And its something LL was referring to in her comment as well.

I've tried to take responsibility for myself and have talked about this both here on the blog and in emails to you. So I'm frankly surprised that this comes as a surprise to you.

I personally am fine with people disagreeing politically with me. I've said over and over again that the reason I took time off from here was because I got defensive.

What has kept my trying to engage with folks here is that I had relationships that I had hoped could transcend the political disagreements. But that doesn't seem possible.

If there's something more folks expect from me other than to betray my own convictions, I'd be happy to hear it.  

Almost everything you do will seem insignificant, but it is important that you do it. Mahatma Gandhi


[ Parent ]
You'll be happy to hear it.? (4.00 / 2)
Quit playing the games. Then you won't feel unwelcome.

[ Parent ]
I honestly don't know (1.00 / 3)
what games you're talking about.

I'm just asking you to be direct with me about what you're seeing.

Almost everything you do will seem insignificant, but it is important that you do it. Mahatma Gandhi


[ Parent ]
Don't play stupid. (4.00 / 2)
You won't quit.

[ Parent ]
I'm honestly not (1.00 / 3)
playing stupid. I'm asking.

Almost everything you do will seem insignificant, but it is important that you do it. Mahatma Gandhi

[ Parent ]
You have betrayed everyone who (4.00 / 2)
invested in you emotionally by misrepresenting us.

If you can't see that.... you are even worse than I thought.

Reality is the result of war between two rival groups of programmers,

so....Roar Louder!!!


[ Parent ]
A surprise? (4.00 / 4)
no.

I have said all along that you are being dishonest with yourself and everyone else.

But STILL I tried to engage with you honestly.

But STILL you went behind my back to smear the site. To curry favor with others. Dishonestly.

This is not political, this is personal.

You KNOW I am not anti-Obama.

But as soon as it is to your personal advantage to diss me and the site as anti-Obama to others you LEAP at the chance.

Honestly, I have never invested so much time and energy in someone SO dishonest and hypocritical. I have never fallen for someones line of bullshit as completely as i did for yours.

You should be proud of your ability to deceive and  obfuscate and tapdance.

You are a master.

A master of deception, you have deceived me and betrayed me.

On BOTH the personal and political level.

Your relationships here...as the people you have been in relationships with here all seem to agree, you have betrayed.

You have betrayed, deceived and disrespected every single shred of of honesty, respect and sharing that has been vouchsafed to you. Every person who embraced you here IN SPITE OF political disagreements...feels betrayed by you.

You BLEW it NL.

People here loved you and embraced you and honestly tried to work with you.

And you betrayed us all.

Fuck you.

Go away in shame and do NOT come back, you hypocritical lying piece of shit.



Reality is the result of war between two rival groups of programmers,

so....Roar Louder!!!


[ Parent ]
How did I (1.00 / 3)
deceive and betray you when I have been nothing but open with you about why I struggled to participate here?

Is it really because of one thing I said on a dead thread at dkos that no one but you saw (until now) and does not mention DD at all - something I've said MANY times to you directly? I have NEVER lied to you.

We've fought intense battles about politics but I've never been anyone but myself with you.

You might not like who I am or agree with me - but I've never hidden anything. As a matter of fact, I've taken some risks to share some things with you that I haven't shared with many people. You've seen more of the real me than many have.
 

Almost everything you do will seem insignificant, but it is important that you do it. Mahatma Gandhi


[ Parent ]
And yet (0.00 / 0)
despite all that we have shared....

You still chose to misrepresent me and the site.

Solely to gain cred with others that you are now sucking up to, just as you sucked up to me. What greater betrayal could there be, especially on a dead thread when you thought you could....get away with it.

Yeah,

it only takes ONE thing to reveal all that you have denied in public and in private.

Everything you have said to me is a blatant lie.

Just as you have just lied again.


- it became anti-Obama headquarters

To  my shame, I believed in you and gave you power. Gave you trust, gave you a platform.....invested in you.

What an idiot I was to trust you. Thank you for the lesson.

I, and others here, thought you were being honest with us, when you were actually just waiting for an opportunity to stab us in the back at the first opportunity.

And you can stop e-mailing me, all future mails will be deleted unread.

You obviously still think I am a chump you can play at will. In fact I think I will email this thread to Deoliver47 and the other folks you are currently engaged in playing in EXACTLY the same way you played me.

And others here.

I very, VERY rarely try to hurt people.

But I really, really, really, REALLY hope this hurts.

YOU HAVE EARNED THAT.

Your dishonesty, tapdancing and betrayal sets an entirely new standard in my life, really. I have never been fooled so completely.

I can only hope that this gives you some form of satisfaction, so that is it is not a complete waste of BOTH of our time and energy.

Congratulations, I rarely admit defeat, but you have defeated me, you win.

You COMPLETELY fucked me.

Good work.



Reality is the result of war between two rival groups of programmers,

so....Roar Louder!!!


[ Parent ]
I'm afraid we've gone (1.00 / 1)
beyond reason. I don't know how to let you see that the person you are describing is not me. I'm not hurt - I'm very frustrated and sad.

I never sucked up to you or anyone else. In that thread, I had asked a few of the black women at dkos who work to challenge racism there why they stick around to do that when they face so many challenges to what they're trying to do. They could easily leave and go someplace where they don't have to face that. All of that was at the end of a diary where several of them had really taken a beating.

Five days after I asked them about that - I realized what a chickenshit I was for not being able to do that myself here. I ran away because I couldn't take it and didn't like what I was becoming in the process. It was a humbling realization for me. I felt like I wanted to mark that by saying it out loud - even though I knew no one would see it. It felt like I was owning something that is lacking in me and honoring what they're doing.

And I never named DD in the process.

I don't suppose any of this will mean alot to you given that you're so mad at me right now. I'm honestly trying to understand why. You were not an idiot to trust me. I'm afraid the mistake you're making is assuming what you are now about me.

Almost everything you do will seem insignificant, but it is important that you do it. Mahatma Gandhi


[ Parent ]
In case people didn't look at (1.00 / 1)
the whole thing - here's the comment in full.

I just realized today (0+ / 0-)
what I think I was trying to say on Tuesday. It might be too late for anyone to see it, but I want to say it anyway.

For a couple of years I hung out on another community blog. I got into a few fights about the progressive version of racism. It got ugly sometimes - but I learned a few things in the process.

Finally, I had to leave because on top of all that - it became anti-Obama headquarters (at least in my opinion). I just got defensive all the time and couldn't take it anymore.

I'm not proud of the fact that I couldn't take it. I wish I could hang in and stand my ground. Perhaps one of the differences though was that I was alone.

So I admire what you're doing more than I can say. I know you all could walk away and find a place of support and comfort (or as Reagon would say..a home). But people like me need people like you if we're going to learn.

So once again...thanks!!!!!  

by NLinStPaul on Sun Jul 05, 2009 at 01:24:14 PM CDT

I agree that its not the most elegant thing I've ever written. I'd say some things differently if I had it to do over again. But I wasn't liking what I saw in the mirror that day and so it didn't come out real well.

Almost everything you do will seem insignificant, but it is important that you do it. Mahatma Gandhi


[ Parent ]
No (4.00 / 1)
I was an idiot to trust you.

You turned out to be a coward. Or a chickenshit as you call yourself.

You damn well should be humbled.

You should fucking be curled up in a corner asking yourself not only how you can be such a coward, but how you could betray the trust of those who invested so much time and energy in you.

You were given a rare and precious opportunity and you fucking blew it.

Good luck in your next lifetime.

And fuck you for forcing me to write you off. You obviously have NO clue how painful it is to have to do so.


Reality is the result of war between two rival groups of programmers,

so....Roar Louder!!!


[ Parent ]
Wow.... (4.00 / 3)
Whatever NL's sins this response and your subsequent others have been vicious examples of some inhumane testosterone filled dick swinging anger that I have had the dubious pleasure of facing in the real world.

Which means of course that you are human as am I with my many faults. My only regret is that I am not saying this to you in person, Boss.

But it has underscored some doubts I have had about whether I can make a meaningful contribution to this community and I think the answer is no. I don't even feel particularly close to NL nor do I even agree with her piont of view all the time. But I cannot stand by and pretend to condone your response to her either. I am not defending the hurt she inflicted on you or by association the way you believe she hurt this community.

Several people here are fascinating writers who are a joy to interact with with fantastic ideas and I wish all of you the very best an hope to see some of your ideas in action.

Peace, compassion, and brotherhood/sisterhood to all of you.


[ Parent ]
mostly i agree ucc (4.00 / 2)
the response was over the top.....
however
given my history with NL i totally understand buhdys response. i feel he is totally correct in his points...
but maybe could have addressed them in a better manner?
but
you must remember this blog IS his baby....his dream...
& it was nearly destroyed by games people were playing. he has every right to be highly outdone when the gamesmen come & lie straightfaced & say 'O noes! it wasn't me'
and also.........
he stated early in this essay something about
Hey!

.

Vodka works!

Time for me to stop blogging!

it was only after that that she spoke up....maybe feeling it "safe" to do so? hell, i have no idea why she picked this essay.
but.
i think the "vicious examples of some inhumane testosterone filled dick swinging anger" are not buhdy's normal mode of being... of course i may be wrong. i don't know him personally.
i think alcohol &/or etc, loosens people into saying what they really think(which is often a good thing) then coupled with rage & hurt they say things the way they really think them(often a not-so-good thing)
it can break down the walls of maintaining 'polite society' & go over the edge into berserker mode.

not making excuses but....
i think this may have been what happened last night.

please don't go ucc. your viewpoint is unique, your photography fantastic, your voice here is important.
please, Please don't go.



come firefly-dreaming with me....


[ Parent ]
I sincerely hope (4.00 / 2)
you stay as your a voice I look forward to reading. You are way different then i politically and yet it is fun to find both the points of intersection and divergence. I do not know about Budhy's and LP's real story as I missed the whole thing. I feel it is personal on LP side as she, for me anyway, seems to be a passive aggressive mixer who uses PC for the personal.

Budhy is pissed and I don't think he's swinging his dick as much as he is being goaded by LP on his own turf. I would truly be sad if you left. Being excellent does not mean that if your really polite and cloak it in PC you can stick the knife in and make it okay. You are excellent and manage to be true to yourself and maintain an open mind and respect for other view points.    


[ Parent ]
I'll claim the (0.00 / 0)
coward part. I'm not proud of that and am having to try to both own it and work on it.

But I won't own betraying you or anyone else here. You gave me a gift and I thoroughly appreciate it. I gave myself in return - warts and all.

I'm sorry for your pain - I feel it too.  

Almost everything you do will seem insignificant, but it is important that you do it. Mahatma Gandhi


[ Parent ]
NL (4.00 / 2)
my apologies for my own inadequacies in my ability to communicate well in blogspeak. Im trying to say something and also (at teh same time) trying to "play by the rules" by not calling specific people out. My comment above was referring to a specific little episode, and a few particular people.

Oddly enough, I am ... hmmm ... can be (at times) more like you (in terms of that whole idealist vs pragmatist debate) and I like the balance that your voice brings to this place. Ive seen you and buhdy disagree but I dont recall any time where it devolved into "attacks" or namecalling or any of that. Me personally, I like DD to have that balance, and then some.

Anyway, back to the time of that episode Im thinking of, buhdy did make a point of saying that if a poster wants to blast Obama, they can. They don't "speak for the site" and blasting Obama is certainly NOT the purpose here nor is there any consensus or conspiracy about that either. Its just one... thing that comes into the conversation while we discuss our main goals, i.e. dealing with the mess we're in (underdog).

Im not trying to muzzle ANYBODY, and was just trying to express my own annoyedness about times when I felt like someone was being challenged in a way that could've simply been done with a different tone. Its more about tone. But n00bs who come with (I dunno what) attitude (or whatever) are likely to be challenged here. And I do think the Welcome Blurb says something to that effect.

I want things to be constructive, not destructive.

pffft. Anyway, stand your ground and stay. Or leave, if you prefer, but I dont like people to feel like they were "run off".

No justice, no peace.


[ Parent ]
She was not run off, she fled. (4.00 / 4)
You have nothing to apologize for.

Reality is the result of war between two rival groups of programmers,

so....Roar Louder!!!


[ Parent ]
I hear you LL! (1.00 / 3)
And on a couple of occassions I've stated pretty clearly that I take responsibility myself for my choice to lay low. I have no quarrel with people gathering here who share a point of view. I think that's one of the roles that blogging can play. And the point of view here is just not my cup of tea. So no one "ran me off."

I don't know what incident you're thinking about - but I'll just be honest that I was thinking more about what happened to MotherTrucker. I think she got blindsided by the reaction of folks to her and if the point of view here had been more clear - that might not have happened.  

Almost everything you do will seem insignificant, but it is important that you do it. Mahatma Gandhi


[ Parent ]
You hypocritical lying piece of shit (4.00 / 2)
Finally, I had to leave because on top of all that - it became anti-Obama headquarters (at least in my opinion). I just got defensive all the time and couldn't take it anymore.

Link... http://www.dailykos.com/commen...

You are not excused and you are not welcome here.

Go away you dishonest treacherous liar. You were given a place of honor here, and every opportunity and all the respect possible and you repay it by smearing this site.  

Reality is the result of war between two rival groups of programmers,

so....Roar Louder!!!


[ Parent ]
Mother Trucker (4.00 / 3)
defended torture not Obama. How can anyone expect respect of this point of view? How can you delude yourself into thinking that people who question Obama are racist and or anti Obama? Your using people to further your agenda of what you consider PC and correct. If you could not take it here then leave cleanly do not please come and poison the water. You are not victim but are on a mission that I've seen before and it is politically the worst misuse of community. Understanding and trust cannot be achieved by this behavior and running people off is your trick. Shame on you for putting this on us.  

[ Parent ]
well said! (4.00 / 3)
♥~

come firefly-dreaming with me....

[ Parent ]
Did you see anything in your navel? (4.00 / 4)
Just curious.....

Sometimes I feel that (4.00 / 5)
the personal is the political. what is politics anyway but a bunch of people who form coalitions and fight and then come together and then disagree, it's the body of all of us. We bring to politics ourselves and ourselves are a result of a lot of elements cultural. The calling out seems absurd not like the truly vicious outing of someone who could lose job or face, but we know each other and to not be able to name a problem because it is impolite to be specific in our wars which are verbal seems silly. What we should call each other with venom 'My respected college'? like the pols do.

No the problems we face lie with the left's inability to call it what it is., to stand up and use the L word. Selling them with appeasement doesn't work. I think that those who are on the fence know a rat bastard when they see one and standing up to them, even using their name is okay it's needed. They make it personal, no ones fooled by the polite rules that say don't call out the person.

Who can read a thread and watch the cowardice and bulling without noticing the names? It's like the pols accountability, cause and effect. Baiting liberals is easy they are so freakin polite and compassionate, so into being 'reasonable' to the other side ,which has no such qualms. I'm tired of being the one who is 'better then that' I'm not. Neither are those who bully and hide behind PC.      


just thought I'd be contrary (4.00 / 4)
someplace where it's safe,LOL. Usually i just uprate and duck.

[ Parent ]
lol (4.00 / 6)
Im thinking about this whole discussion and myself, and just laughing (at myself).
Im ... different in person. But online, partly because I type so slow, Im all kumbaya (most of the time). Also, because I have a brain like a sieve (I forget details and names), I suck at "debate".

In real life, my tactics... well they do not convey to cyberland so well. Im overtly timid and shy (really) and so I often resort to covert means ... passive aggressive, or sometimes tension-breaking humor.

Well now you know my secrets. heh.

"My respected colleague" ha ha ha ah ah I might use that one.

No justice, no peace.


[ Parent ]
That reminds me of a few days ago and someone (4.00 / 6)
couldnt believe the contradictions between my peace, love, dope comments and the comment I made, "get out of my face".  Hey, I'm a liberal, peace loving, kid loving dude, but don't piss me off! :)

[ Parent ]
The personal dichotomy... (4.00 / 4)
Yes. Somtimes everything is personal and then because I am am such a flaky Gemini.... it suddenly isn't.

So I jitter bug back and forth about how personally to take things. My guideline is if I am genuinely hurt by something I probably just need to go do other stuff. Since I have no attention span I am easily distracted so the hurt feelings for me are usually minimal that and I am a little fish so I don't attract much ire.


LOL! There ya go, a short attention span aint all bad! (4.00 / 3)


[ Parent ]
I'm a sticks and stones kind of person.... (4.00 / 3)
I think words, all words, are fair game.  I have no tolerance for PC.  While I prefer civility, you can call me anything you want. Just don't touch me or lie to me.  

Am I anti-Obama?   I don't think so.  I could and would support him, if he ever did anything I appreciated. I am critical of Obama because he lied to some of us, and he isn't willing to fight.  

I spent my early childhood in a neighborhood in the inner city of Detroit.  I was one of three white kids in my entire grade.  I was short, chubby, and had long ringlets.  On the playground, I was regular taunted, shoved, threatened, called a cracker, and had my hair pulled. Once, they even tried to extort my candy to let me go home.  What I learned from my school experience (and my dad) was that I had to be willing to take a punch (literally and figuratively).  I had to screw up the courage to stand up and fight for myself, even if when I got my ass kicked.  

If a sorry assed, little, white kid in Detroit could learn to stand up to power, I have no empathy for the most powerful man in our country being more interested in getting and keeping his job than doing it (covering his ass).  If this makes me anti-Obama, sign me up.  


[ Parent ]
Actually no, I was uncomfortable with Sasha wearing a (4.00 / 5)
Peace sign t-shirt.  So what does that make me?  I can say I think it because we worked fucking hard for that peace sign back in the day, and her father is carrying on an agenda that is anything but peace.  It's like the peace sign means nothing to me when I see that.  

I'd feel the same way if I saw Jenna Bush wearing a t-shirt (4.00 / 2)
with a peace sign.  

[ Parent ]
One little difference (4.00 / 2)
I think. If Jenna would wear a peace sign you could be sure it's deliberate! With Obama's kids I'm not so sure.
I could be wrong, I'm still confused about the man.

I agree with you though, this sign was hard fought for. Still a lot of pain attached to it.


[ Parent ]
True. And me too. Time will tell (4.00 / 2)
I keep saying that!!

[ Parent ]
Reform Immigration -
March for America
Sunday, March 21
 

March on Washington
Saturday, March 20
 

 

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