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The Problem With The Netroots Strategy On Iraq

by: Armando

Fri Sep 14, 2007 at 07:05:23 PDT        
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The Netroots has this year focused its fire on Iraq on "moderate" Republicans and what they term Bush Dog Democrats. Move On's Tom Matzzie "masterminded" a brilliant plan that Move On has implemented this spring and summer of running ads against "moderate" Republicans like Jim Walsh and it worked, Walsh will now favor a toothless "change the course" strategy that Democrats will offer as a "bipartisan" plan. Move On and the Dems have concocted a political position that will give "moderate" Republicans cover on the Iraq issue in 2008 while doing nothing to change the course of the Debacle. Brilliant!

Similarly, the Bush Dog Democrat plan, which threatens to run Netroots-inspired primaries against people like Mississippi Congressman Gene Taylor (D-MS) (because I am sure Mississippi Democrats will rise up once some Mississippi progressive is anointed as the Netroots candidate in such a primary), will no doubt make a big dent in Bush's Iraq policy. Not.

Meanwhile, erstwhile Netroots Dem Joe Sestak (D-PA), once a supporter of a date certain for withdrawal, no longer supports a firm timeline:

Sestak said, Democratic leaders should set aside their demands for immediate withdrawal "and begin to help author a comprehensive regional security plan that accepts the necessity for a deliberate redeployment." . . . Sestak has been among those Democrats who think that setting a "date certain" for withdrawal is the best way to force Iraqis to assume more responsibility. But he now believes the length of time needed to redeploy, and the potential for the entire Army to "unravel" unless troops are redeployed, require a compromise. . . .

This is indicative of all that was wrong with the progressive activist strategy on Iraq in 2007. Instead of concentrating on growing and holding the group of Dems, once 171 strong in the House, in favor of no funding without timelines, some decided they could pressure Republicans and conservative Dems like Gene Taylor. And we are where we are today in no small measure because of these miscalculations. I repeat, one more time, that it will take pressure on Dems, MAINSTREAM and PROGRESSIVE Dems, to hold the line on no funding without timelines. We need to work for more pledges like this one:

Dear Mr. President:
We are writing to inform you that we will only support appropriating additional funds for U.S. military operations in Iraq during Fiscal Year 2008 and beyond for the protection and safe redeployment of all our troops out of Iraq before you leave office.

More than 3,600 of our brave soldiers have died in Iraq. More than 26,000 have been seriously wounded. Hundreds of thousands of Iraqis have been killed or injured in the hostilities and more than 4 million have been displaced from their homes. Furthermore, this conflict has degenerated into a sectarian civil war and U.S. taxpayers have paid more than $500 billion, despite assurances that you and your key advisors gave our nation at the time you ordered the invasion in March, 2003 that this military intervention would cost far less and be paid from Iraqi oil revenues.

We agree with a clear and growing majority of the American people who are opposed to continued, open-ended U.S. military operations in Iraq, and believe it is unwise and unacceptable for you to continue to unilaterally impose these staggering costs and the soaring debt on Americans currently and for generations to come. . .

The pledge made in this letter should have been the focal point of our activism. Sadly, it was not.

Armando :: The Problem With The Netroots Strategy On Iraq
And credit to those Representatives who signed the pledge.

Rep. Lynn Woolsey (CA); Rep. Barbara Lee (CA); Rep. Maxine Waters (CA); Rep. Ellen Tauscher (CA); Rep. Rush Holt (NJ); Rep. Maurice Hinchey (NY); Rep. Diane Watson (CA); Rep. Ed Pastor (AZ); Rep. Barney Frank (MA); Rep. Danny Davis (IL); Rep. John Conyers (MI); Rep. John Hall (NY); Rep. Bob Filner (CA); Rep. Nydia Velazquez (NY); Rep. Bobby Rush (IL); Rep. Charles Rangel (NY); Rep. Ed Towns (NY); Rep. Paul Hodes (NH); Rep. William Lacy Clay (MO); Rep. Earl Blumenauer (OR); Rep. Albert Wynn (MD); Rep. Bill Delahunt (MA); Rep. Eleanor Holmes Norton (DC); Rep. G. K. Butterfield (NC); Rep. Hilda Solis (CA); Rep. Carolyn Maloney (NY); Rep. Jerrold Nadler (NY); Rep. Michael Honda (CA); Rep. Steve Cohen (TN); Rep. Phil Hare (IL); Rep. Grace Flores Napolitano (CA); Rep. Alcee Hastings (FL); Rep. James McGovern (MA); Rep. Marcy Kaptur (OH); Rep. Jan Schakowsky (IL); Rep. Julia Carson (IN); Rep. Linda Sanchez (CA); Rep. Raul Grijalva (AZ); Rep. John Olver (MA); Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee (TX); Rep. Jim McDermott (WA); Rep. Ed Markey (MA); Rep. Chaka Fattah (PA); Rep. Frank Pallone Jr. (NJ); Rep. Rubin Hinojosa (TX); Rep. Pete Stark (CA); Rep. Bobby Scott (VA); Rep. Jim Moran (VA); Rep. Betty McCollum (MN); Rep. Jim Oberstar (MN); Rep. Diana DeGette (CO); Rep. Stephen Lynch (MA); Rep. Artur Davis (AL); Rep. Hank Johnson (GA); Rep. Donald Payne (NJ); Rep. Emanuel Cleaver (MO); Rep. John Lewis (GA); Rep. Yvette Clarke (NY); Rep. Neil Abercrombie (HI); Rep. Gwen Moore (WI); Rep. Keith Ellison (MN); Rep. Tammy Baldwin (WI); Rep. Donna Christensen (USVI); Rep. David Scott (GA); Rep. Luis Gutierrez (IL); Lois Capps (CA); Steve Rothman (NJ); Elijah Cummings (MD); and Rep. Ron Paul (R-TX).

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Primary Sestak!! (4.00 / 9)
That's the 20087 answer to the 2007 problem of Iraq for some.

"as usual, . . . analytical and calm"  

And Vote for Cindy in 08! (4.00 / 5)
So we can impeach Bush!

(one of my all time fav dkos shitstorms, lol)

Reality is the result of war between two rival groups of programmers,

so....Roar Louder!!!


[ Parent ]
It was ridiculous (4.00 / 4)
and more than that, it was a harmful distraction.


"as usual, . . . analytical and calm"  

[ Parent ]
I don't follow you. (0.00 / 0)
What was ridiculous and a harmful distraction? Sheehan's candidacy or the dkos reaction to it?

[ Parent ]
Not my favorite out of body experience! (4.00 / 4)


[ Parent ]
What can we do from the netroots? (4.00 / 8)
Lots of call our reps and email and sign pledges. We call to pressure them, we call to thank them for taking action ~ Lynn Woolsey is my rep and has been anti-Iraq from the beginning. Others are marching this weekend...

What more can we do to pressure the status quo Dems?


Focus! (4.00 / 5)
Repetition. Unwavering demand for the pledge.

Let people know THIS is our position and we will criticize and hold to account those we can for not giving that pledge.

That presupposes agreeement with it of course.

"as usual, . . . analytical and calm"  


[ Parent ]
I call it diamond making now. (4.00 / 2)
I think of it as a hobby sort of like coin and stamp collecting (which I hate ;).  A lot of repeating, things you do don't make you wealthy for a long while but the tenacious have done big things.

[ Parent ]
Diamond making? (0.00 / 0)
As in, applying pressure over time to turn rotten matter into something valuable?

I like that :-)

Damn George Bush! Damn everyone that won't damn George Bush! Damn every one that won't put lights in his window and sit up all night damning George Bush!


[ Parent ]
As Ulysses Everett McGill said: (4.00 / 11)
People are looking for answers.

Lots of different folks trying lots of different things.

And the netroots being who we are....who we have had to be to become the net roots...iow, rebels, have been looking under different bushes and NOT been unified on how to proceed.

So Big Picture-wise....Other than the strength of ideas and inspiration....how do we unify the netroots?

Even incrementally?

Our strength is the volume of our voice....if we can get the choir all singing the same song, our voice is louder and more powerful.

But how?

Reality is the result of war between two rival groups of programmers,

so....Roar Louder!!!


This is the answer (4.00 / 7)
This HAS ALWAYS been the answer.

Excuse my arrogance but I laid out why this was the answer in January 2007.

Since then, we have wasted 9 months.

"as usual, . . . analytical and calm"  


[ Parent ]
Well sure it is the answer (4.00 / 2)
I have always agreed with THAT.

The question remains, how do we get the netroots to embrace it and unify behind it?

I am out of touch, so perdon....but is the occupation funded through the end of Bush's term now? Or will there be another chance to not fund?

If so, when?

Reality is the result of war between two rival groups of programmers,

so....Roar Louder!!!


[ Parent ]
Pressure them? (4.00 / 2)
Call them out?

Anyway, I know no other way and that is what I do.

"as usual, . . . analytical and calm"  


[ Parent ]
Good cop, bad cop? (4.00 / 5)
That is appealing!

Unifying the netroots has been one of my subthemes for a long time....a VERY worthy subject for discussion here, methinks.

The only way to move the pledge thing forward is individually pressuring Congressmembers. The numbers and diffuseness are daunting on that....even just in going after the Bush Dogs. (whichIS good long term strategy, imo)

Reality is the result of war between two rival groups of programmers,

so....Roar Louder!!!


[ Parent ]
wasted? (0.00 / 0)
people want hegemony, that's what it looks like.

and those that "oppose the war" show time and again they really want to "change it from the inside".


[ Parent ]
meaning (0.00 / 0)
they DON'T "OPPOSE" is, but just want a "better war".


[ Parent ]
the meaning (0.00 / 0)
they don't "OPPOSE" it, but just want a "better war".


[ Parent ]
Sing LOUD (4.00 / 2)
HoDaLaHe  WHOOO
..........<*o*>
  NETROOTS

ME--->  ME2--->  WE R 2 CRITTERS!?.........:*

[ Parent ]
miscalculation or not (4.00 / 4)
I think it's part of a broader strategy to teach wayward democrats to fear us. Without that we are nothing.

Who hears us? (4.00 / 2)
I GUARANTEE you Gene Taylor does not.

"as usual, . . . analytical and calm"  

[ Parent ]
only those who fear us hear us (4.00 / 5)
and only when the threat is credible. I think I'm agreeing with you about the miscalculation, but I'm also inclined to cut some slack because we have to learn by doing, not retreating. It's hard to get consistently wise leadership out of a mob but generally and in the long run it's decisions are better than a single sun tsu. I think this example was a valiant miss. But we are also in a do or die situation.

How do we salvage it?


[ Parent ]
The learning curve has been killer (4.00 / 8)
heh!

And part of my learning curve has been understanding that the netroots is not as smart as I thought it was!

Reality is the result of war between two rival groups of programmers,

so....Roar Louder!!!


[ Parent ]
no kidding (4.00 / 3)
on both counts.

[ Parent ]
Cept for me of course (4.00 / 7)
Right? Right?!? Right?!?!?

"as usual, . . . analytical and calm"  

[ Parent ]
stroke (4.00 / 2)
stroke

That is your weekly allotment....savor it!

Reality is the result of war between two rival groups of programmers,

so....Roar Louder!!!


[ Parent ]
Can't help it (4.00 / 3)
andgarden started it this morning with MC Hammer



[ Parent ]
I think it is very smart (4.00 / 5)
Lots of analysis goes on, lots of it very good stuff....it is the action portion of things where we lack and sadly we bicker too much instead of simply debate and then act.  Then you have someone like Cindy Sheehan who is excellent at action but needs and needed desperately help in critical analysis.  The netroots is still being birthed....David Sirota is a good analysis to action activist.....good copy material there.  Wish he was rabid about the war.

[ Parent ]
Those who fears us hear us (4.00 / 2)
Gene Taylor does not fear us. Nor should he. We can do nothing to him.

"as usual, . . . analytical and calm"  

[ Parent ]
I can wipe boogers on his car (4.00 / 6)


[ Parent ]
yeah (0.00 / 0)
that's definitely a mulligan.

[ Parent ]
damn it, I take it back (0.00 / 0)
the "netroots" has been making horrible choices, repeatedly. This is just another example. The Iraq war was handled horribly by us as well, especially by moveon, not just by congress. I guess I was just happy seeing someone try to fight back and land a punch, even if it is a stupid fight to pick.

I don't know what came over me.


[ Parent ]
I'd just like to note my Congressman is against the war. (4.00 / 5)
Voted against it, votes to end it every time, and wants to end it today.

And he is a Republican.

Go Ron Paul!

But seriously, they don't care, all that congressis ever worried about is re-election. The golden calves of the purity netroots turn their backs on the cause once they get that brass ring.

I still say the best angle to with hold campaign contributions based on the congress critter of your choice not representing you properly.

This is still, at least last I checked, a representative democracy. And if they don't represent the will of the people, the people must will in different monkeys into Congress.

As for TODAY, which concerns me more than some cracked out scheme for 2008, we need a coalition of conservative and progressive Democrats, along with a core of Republican dissenters sending the same bill over and over again to Bush.

People poo-pooed that idea last May, but until they at least show some back bone and keep sending the bill over and over again for veto after veto, and making certain people look foolish for not voting to over-ride that veto, we will be in Iraq.

Chaotic Neutral, Drinker of Milkshakes


Withold campaign contributions (4.00 / 1)
as opposed to raising money for Dems.

And what is the Netroots doing might I ask?

"as usual, . . . analytical and calm"  


[ Parent ]
Netroots is showing they have no idea what they are doing. (4.00 / 7)
They reward bad behaviour, repeatedly.

I think a good test case for the netroots is Jim Webb. Here is a dude that was their golden calf, and now he has flip flopped on the war once he seat down in that seat for 6 years.

They poured money and resources into that guy, only to get kicked in the balls.

Someone should start a slush fund to contribute too that only rewards congress monkeys that are trying to end the war. So when a person donates they know their money is going towards a validate candidate.

It's the powerof the purse, one of the few real tools netroots has on candidates. Unless netroots uses their power to fund raise to effect change, they are just an atm for the democratic party.

If all of the sudden the sitting congress saw that there was a huge war chest being built for candidates who opposed the war, I beat netroots would finally have their ear.

Writing petitions and making calls is bullshit, they don't care, they are in the Beltway, where all their fantasies come true.

Chaotic Neutral, Drinker of Milkshakes


[ Parent ]
That's a good idea (4.00 / 2)
But I do not trust anybody in the NEtroots with the money.

I do not trut MoveOn. I do not truts Blog Pac.

they show very bad judgment imo.

"as usual, . . . analytical and calm"  


[ Parent ]
to bad we can have like a wiki structure (4.00 / 4)
that allocates a slush fund to deserving candidates.

That's where the disconnect with netroots is. They give money anarchically, then have no input on its allocation.

There needs to be a process where the fund is allocated int he same fashion is its raised, netroot style.

Chaotic Neutral, Drinker of Milkshakes


[ Parent ]
We need something like MoveOn though (0.00 / 0)
Without some kind of executive arm of the bottom-up valuing system of the netroots it's just going to stay as chaotic mob power. A pressure campaign on MoveOn to alter its strategies (or get rid of Matzzie)? Or maybe we need a new party - the Online People's Party... heh.

[ Parent ]
When It Comes To The War, Tester And McCaskill (4.00 / 2)
have also been a disappointment to say the least.  There is another avenue that can be pursued along with everything else. That is to make a recommendation by members of Congress who vote for the occupation TOXIC. IOW, Claire McCaskill sends out solicitation letters to her donor base for a down ticket Dem. The letters are sent back with ZERO contributions (or YetiMonk's penny) with a note saying "Based on the poor judgement shown by Senator McCaskill, I no longer trust her judgement and will not fund any candidate that receives her recommendation. Influence, is another coin that politicians value and that can be taken away if we have the will to do whatever it takes to chance things.

No courage = No $$$ for Dems

[ Parent ]
when you recruit ex-republicans (4.00 / 2)
in hope that they'll change their spots in the future, you get what you deserve, IMO.

[ Parent ]
Especially nuts that have been picked by the idiot Reagan (0.00 / 0)
for high office.  Probably better than Allen, but not worth putting much money toward.  I send it to Barry in Ind. for the congressional race.

"I said, 'Wait a minute, Chester, you know I'm a peaceful man'"

[ Parent ]
not just that (4.00 / 2)
but more often than not, raising money for mushy centrist dems, and ignoring actual rabid antiwar candidates.

e.g., paul loebsack, steve cohen, carol-shea porter, christine cegalis, and yes i will say the name cynthia mckinney.

most of who the netroots have been steered towards and supported are the sort of folks that give dems a majority by making sure our antiwar caucus remains a functional minority.


[ Parent ]
nadler agrees with the send it back theory (0.00 / 0)
i could tell he feels just as duped as we were on this and fisa

aka conchita

[ Parent ]
what do you think (4.00 / 2)
will happen with the Iraq funding this time around - Bush's current $200 billion request?

Well (4.00 / 2)
I do not like to do punditry on this issue and I won't now.


"as usual, . . . analytical and calm"  

[ Parent ]
wise (0.00 / 0)
it's a lose-lose predictive space

[ Parent ]
It looks like a done deal. (4.00 / 3)


Reality is the result of war between two rival groups of programmers,

so....Roar Louder!!!


[ Parent ]
so some Dems will (0.00 / 0)
actually pretend to accept the cover of General Petraeus' testimony? Amazing. I guess Armando's example of Sestak's backsliding proves exactly that.

[ Parent ]
It looks like a done deal. (0.00 / 0)


Reality is the result of war between two rival groups of programmers,

so....Roar Louder!!!


[ Parent ]
I'll cover bets (0.00 / 0)
and even give odds.

[ Parent ]
The problem is with the Dem Leadership (4.00 / 4)
and other prominent Dems who, despite their bluster, are simply not serious about ending the war.

It is the Dem Leadership that is endorsing Walsh's plan, and thus lending credence to gummy bi-partisanship. 

It also the Dem Leadership that is giving as much cover as it can to Bush Dogs' votes on the War (not to mention allying with them and the Goopers against the majority of the Dem caucus on FISA.)

Finally, it is the Dem Leadership that is thumbing its nose at the out-of-Iraq caucus,  asking for party unity and loyalty from them  on key votes like the first supplemental yet  giving none in return.

If the Netroots really wants to apply some pressure, it should target Pelosi, Reid, Hoyer, and the rest of those in the Congressional Leadership who simply refuse to lead.

All that campaign cash buys a lot of stupid.


But here is the thing (4.00 / 11)
if 171 Dems held to the pledge of the McGovern Amendment and theletter quoted above, then that compromise bill will fail.

"as usual, . . . analytical and calm"  

[ Parent ]
I think you've just identified (4.00 / 4)
where our action should be.

[ Parent ]
I hope so (4.00 / 2)
Damn, for 9 months I have been posting the same fucking thing over and over again.

"as usual, . . . analytical and calm"  

[ Parent ]
you have been doing amazing work (0.00 / 0)
it is why i followed you over to talkleft.  can we take it a couple of steps further and build a collaborative effort with others from the blogosphere and the activists.  and also work to set up meetings with congressman.  pda is doing some great work and has access to members of congress who are on its advisory board.  i really believe that working with groups like that can make a difference. 

aka conchita

[ Parent ]
Agreed (4.00 / 1)
I'm not discounting the pledge strategy. I just think we'd have a far better change of holding those 171 votes if we don't have the Dem Leadership actively working to reduce that number, as it did on the original supplemental vote.

All that campaign cash buys a lot of stupid.

[ Parent ]
Why Doesn't Congress Give a D**m? (4.00 / 6)
I have a son who is active duty, navy.  Active duty navy (and air force) are now facing tours of duty in I/A (Iraq/Afghanistan-on the ground) Unready for Combat.-because Congress has sat back and allowed Bush to misuse, abuse, and decimate the military.    I want nothing more than to see troops withdrawn from Iraq-yesterday. 

I want to see a Congress that will stand up and do what they were mandated by the voters to do in 2006-get out of Iraq.  I do wonder why Sestak has changed his mind-whether it is for political reasons or whether it is because as a former Admiral he is aware of the logistics of troop withdrawal.  I honestly don't know the answers-but I know people whose lives depend on the right answers.  I just wish that people in Congress would give a damn, would stand up to Bush's insanity and bring the troops home, ASAP.


The logistics of troop withdrawal (4.00 / 4)
would change the DATE of full withdrawal, not the concept of binding timelines.

That explanation holds no water.

"as usual, . . . analytical and calm"  


[ Parent ]
I will keep you in my thoughts (4.00 / 2)
This is the worst President ever for military families.

[ Parent ]
Thank You (4.00 / 2)
Yes Bush is The Worst President Ever--in so many ways.

[ Parent ]
the dems (0.00 / 0)
seem to be trading the chances of political repercussions of genocide in Iraq, for a much safer capitulation to Bush and simply being "not as unpopular as the GOP war cheerleaders".

We have genocide right now in Iraq (4.00 / 1)
and the longer our troops are the buffer between warring factions the longer those differences remain unresolved.  If we responsibly redeployed meaning that our troops would stand down forcing Iraqi nationalism to stand up, the better.  They can't afford to trade possible repercussions for the destruction of their military either and I think that is finally becoming an issue they can't ignore.

[ Parent ]
where is the evidence (4.00 / 3)
that anything is becoming an issue they can't ignore? It's magic September and the Dems are pushing a toothless compromise weaker than what they proposed a few months ago.

There is no evidence whatsoever that Dems will stand up this time.


[ Parent ]
I have no evidence (4.00 / 1)
just my bleeding heart hearing a few whispers here and there ;)

[ Parent ]
one suggestion (4.00 / 4)
the net roots could be more integrated with the grassroots. The net roots tends to be all analytical about things and view the picture from a data and political perception view point always worrying that we are not considered lefty nuts. The reality does not hold true when I go into the community off the screen. If we are a 'big tent 'that means coalitions with people who we often ridicule for their methodology.

We also seem to stuck in our perceptions of who is electable from local to national. At town halls all over the state my weasely Senator this break was shocked to be confronted by people demanding  impeachment! We are operating in the establishments version of reality and it's one that they have made up. The voting pool is not static and, if we want to take back our party we should not be fishing in the same pool as the Republicans. 


one suggestion (0.00 / 0)
the net roots could be more integrated with the grassroots. The net roots tends to be all analytical about things and view the picture from a data and political perception view point always worrying that we are not considered lefty nuts. The reality does not hold true when I go into the community off the screen. If we are a 'big tent 'that means coalitions with people who we often ridicule for their methodology.

We also seem to stuck in our perceptions of who is electable from local to national. At town halls all over the state my weasely Senator this break was shocked to be confronted by people demanding  impeachment! We are operating in the establishments version of reality and it's one that they have made up. The voting pool is not static and, if we want to take back our party we should not be fishing in the same pool as the Republicans. 


sorry screwed up, double posting embarrassing n/t (0.00 / 0)


[ Parent ]
systematic (4.00 / 1)
you are right, but it is systematic in every issue... Dems refuse to go to their left for support, or even hold the liberals they have to the issue at hand, it's always "assume those will stay, and court the conservative and swing voters"... always, and it fails the same way.

However, it's not just strategy... it's because they are conservative in their hearts, they come to their "liberalism" on a line, sometimes long, that is anchored to the right... they reach the limit, they tether off so as not to fall down the slippery slope of leftism where you find yourself doing crazy things like thinking about the genocide against native americans and how the CIA isn't a very liberal institution really.

so get used to it...


Talk isn't pressure. (4.00 / 1)
Chat isn't pressure.
Phone calls aren't pressure.
If they were, the Democrats would have already acted to oppose the war.

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