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Fire In The Belly - Pt 3: Progressives & The Democratic Party

  

by: Edger

Sat Feb 06, 2010 at 06:23:33 PST


(6 PM - promoted by TheMomCat)

Journalism professor Jeff Cohen of FAIR and the Park Center for Independent Media on the struggle within the Democratic Party, starting from the Viet Nam War:

There's no doubt that there's an awakening. What concerns me is that the liberal base, the Democratic Party base, has never been more educated, in my view, and that's because of the independent media. The democratic base is against an imperial foreign policy. The democratic base is for real medicare for all, or at least the strongest public option that would really hurt private insurance. There's an understanding of history, and again it's largely because the independent media is giving us the news in real time, every day when we click on the computer and we watch Real News, we watch Democracy Now.

What hasn't translated is while we have this boom in independent media on the Internet, we don't have a boom of independent politics.

What I believe are needed are new groups, that will be on the Internet, mobilizing the millions to make the kinds of demands of the Democrats that the right wing base, which has clearly transformed the country, the right wing base in the Republican Party not only took over a major party, they haven't let up on that party until their agenda is put in place, whereas on our side we don't have that.

What needs to happen, this is what a few groups are doing, Progressive Democrats of America is one, the idea is we need to take over that major political party.

When people talk about change, and then they deliver only for insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies and Wall Street, you vote them out. You primary them. You know this is what the right wing has done for decades. It's what they're doing now.

What we get from MoveOn historically and other groups is apologies for democratic office holders who have faked left with their rhetoric and then governed for big business. And what we need is to primary these people.

Frankly... I would love to see a primary challenge to Obama when he's up for re-election.

Because unless you build a base through elections and then you hold the officials accountable, then you'll never get anywhere.


Real News Network - February 6, 2010

This is Part 3. Part 1 of this interview is here. Part 2 is here.

Part 4 is still to come...


Edger :: Fire In The Belly - Pt 3: Progressives & The Democratic Party
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Got the belly for it? (4.00 / 21)

"we need to take over that major political party"

Yes (4.00 / 9)
We have a meeting coming up with everyone who's running for anything in my county. I'm not asking any questions, talk is cheap. I'm just going to stare into their eyes. lol
Really and seriously.
I'm pretty sure I'll know more that way.

aka burned

[ Parent ]
Yep. If they look away (4.00 / 6)
and can't look you in the eye... you'll know.

[ Parent ]
Bush swears by that "looking in their eyes..." (4.00 / 4)
thingy--worked for him when he was sizing up Putin, right?  ;-)  Seriously, in this case, you are probably right, cause as we've seen, their talk is cheap, and after they're elected they continue to talk but fail to act--or if they do act, it's contrary to what they say.


[ Parent ]
The difference between me and Bush (4.00 / 4)
is he's got lying eyes and I don't.
Heh.

Other people will ask the questions. I'm just going to watch them answer.

aka burned


[ Parent ]
Crossposted now (4.00 / 9)
in Orange, where I'm fairly sure it could use the recs.

[ Parent ]
Heh (4.00 / 9)
And now your FP'd here because we love you and they left me with the "keys" tonight.  

"By the pricking of my thumb, something wicked this way comes.", Wm. Shakespeare, "Macbeth"

[ Parent ]
Orange is such a fucking waste. (4.00 / 3)
Although the donuts have been holstered, the brains are still dead.  I am a bottom line kind of person, and I'm sick of the game.  Either we can do what it takes to create the change that is needed, or we can't.   If we can't, I'd rather be reading a book on the beach in Mexico, Tulum to be exact.  If I could do a redo, in 07 I would have cashed everything out and stuck it in CDs.  Then I'd really be on that beach.  

[ Parent ]
The's probably true, I agree (4.00 / 4)
but really by posting there I'm not doing anything different than I've done for most of my life. Just dropping ideas as seeds, or stones tossed in a pond to make ripples, and see who picks up on them, you know?  

[ Parent ]
I know. (4.00 / 2)
I'm sorry if I sounded like I was barking at you.  I didn't mean to.  I was more howling at the moon, if you know what I mean.  

[ Parent ]
No, you didn't sound (4.00 / 2)
like that at all. You just sounded a little frustrated with dkos is all. Thanks for your comments over there, too. They were  good ones. ;-)

[ Parent ]
I think your essay are always so practical. (4.00 / 1)
I've been advocating a really big stick for quite some time.  However, I think Obama is too dense and arrogant to get it even with a bat.  Radio played an Obama clip this am with the lede that Obama is still working on health care.  The clip has Obama telling us how Republicans are coming in next week to meet with him to put their ideas on the table.  If the man hasn't gotten no way, now how by now, he needs a new brain.    

[ Parent ]
He needs to be primaried (0.00 / 0)
along with a lot of Congressional Dems. If he doesn't smarten up in the next month or so the midterms are going to be a catastrophe, and he'll have no choice but to continue working with taking orders from Republicans for the rest of his one term presidency.

[ Parent ]
so the question is (4.00 / 4)
if the orange is dead when it comes to real organizing, then does DD or some collection of other blogs come to the fore?

if you cross post, then i go there to rec and comment.  i'm not against that, i just don't understand what the ultimate result of such a strategy would be.



Change we can believe in = chump change.


Of crossposting there you mean? (4.00 / 5)
Because there are still some real progressives there...

[ Parent ]
oh yes (4.00 / 4)
of course.  i am still there, but it i am thinking if the site is irredeemable then we should be punching up this site and others.  it was a real question.  what are we trying to accomplish?  is abandoning the orange totally a good idea?

i don't know.  i just know the orange pisses me off more and more and i don't expect that much from it to begin with, so that is saying a lot.

Change we can believe in = chump change.


[ Parent ]
Well, I have this (4.00 / 4)
posted also today at Antemedius, Wild Wild Left, and My Left Wing, as well as DD and DKos... so it's spread around planting seeds.

And who knows, even at DKos people need encouragement also to keep on posting there. You saw some of the comments there today?

For example, o the umanity replied to another commenter with:

Notice how our supported ideas have not yet been implemented?

How long have some of them been on the table, again?

We are running out of time, and we cannot afford to continue placating ourselves with feel-good rhetoric.



[ Parent ]
I've learned something interesting in the last few months ... (4.00 / 2)
The pull of the internet is for people to act like someone skateboarding through a busy mall shouting through a megaphone.  But lately I've spending more and more internet time in small discussions with individuals, digging into the specifics of what they are saying, pushing people, and BEING PUSHED BY THEM.  Despite the difference in media, it recalls the old days when you passed out fliers one-on-one and cornered people in the cafeteria.  Or as Dooley Wilson put it:

This day and age we're living in
Gives cause for apprehension
With speed and new invention
And things like fourth dimension.

Yet we get a trifle weary
With Mr. Einstein's theory.
So we must get down to earth at times
Relax relieve the tension

And no matter what the progress
Or what may yet be proved
The simple facts of life are such
They cannot be removed.

You must remember this
A kiss is just a kiss, a sigh is just a sigh.
The fundamental things apply
As time goes by.

So if you can reach people somewhere, reach them.  It's not winning over a majority at a site that matters.  The only reason to abandon a site where you have a presence is when it becomes so bad you can't have a dialogue at all.

"I don't mind if you don't like my manners, I don't like them myself. They are pretty bad. I grieve over them on long winter evenings." -- Marlowe


[ Parent ]
I've got the belly for a primary challenge in 2012 . . . (4.00 / 6)
. . . and a third-party challenge if the primary challenge doesn't work.  One way or the other, the Democratic Party has to become as scared to death of us as it is of the Republicans.  Or, rather, more scared of us.  It has to be so scared of us that it not only talks left but governs left--as my congress critter, Jane Harman (CA-36), does sometimes--in seasons (as now) when she's facing a strong primary challenge from real Democrat Marcy Winograd.  They should all be facing primary challenges all the time.

They have to become more scared (4.00 / 4)
I agree. They need some motivation.

[ Parent ]
All right, time for my plug (4.00 / 3)
The driving force behind a lot of independent motion in and outside the DP will be a primary challenge.  Problem is the challenger will be mainstream and will kiss the ring after he or she loses to the Obama machine.  The challenger will not form an independent party.  The challenger will not build a permanent semi-independent infrastructure.

That's where the Full Court Press comes in.  It is a vastly effort, will not make any of the splash of the preidential show.  But it is designed to build infrastructure.  Its very smallness, its flying under the radar, as it were, means that independent progressives will be able to keep control.

The primary challenger will talk a good game.  The FCP should be positioned just slightly -- but firmly -- to the left of that.  Think on this, I'm not going away.

"I don't mind if you don't like my manners, I don't like them myself. They are pretty bad. I grieve over them on long winter evenings." -- Marlowe


[ Parent ]
speed your timeline (4.00 / 3)
What do you mean, if the primary challenge doesn't work?  If you mean the challenger wins, she or he won't.  So at that point you prepare your third-party challenge?  Too late.  If you are serious about a third-party challenge, it has to be prepared now.

"I don't mind if you don't like my manners, I don't like them myself. They are pretty bad. I grieve over them on long winter evenings." -- Marlowe

[ Parent ]
Ted Kennedy primaried Jimmy Carter in 1980 (4.00 / 3)
For the same fucking reason.  Came pretty close, too. Unfortunately, the corporations had their way. The good news is go back and look up Teddy's numbers. The people who voted for him in 1980 are a natural part of a newly organized Progressive base.

http://www.americanrhetoric.co... (from American Rhetoric Top 100 Speeches

Take a few minutes to listen to it. Full transcript included.

A bit ironic that the TPP is showing us the way.

"Sometimes the songs that we hear are just songs of our own." Robert Hunter


Great link. Thanks, RUKind! (4.00 / 4)
Here's a player for the speech:

Ted Kennedy
1980 Democratic National Convention Address
delivered 12 August 1980, New York, NY


[ Parent ]
Thank you so much (4.00 / 2)


"Sometimes the songs that we hear are just songs of our own." Robert Hunter

[ Parent ]
There needs to be pressure (4.00 / 4)
from progressives on the Democratic Party from both inside and outside of the party.  The teabaggers seem to understand this, because they're putting pressure in the other direction on the Republicans and the Republicans are responding to that pressure.

- 7.12, - 7.54 / AOTME / Twitter / Facebook

Only Vote FOR People! (4.00 / 3)
huh ... what is this f'king idiot saying?

Only Vote FOR People!

do NOT vote for people you don't like,
(vote for yourself!)

do NOT vote for people who sell you out,
(vote for your granny!)

do NOT vote for people who are ineffective,
(vote for your neighbor!)

do NOT vote for people who lie to you,
(vote for your daughter!)

ONLY VOTE FOR PEOPLE!

BTW -
Only give time, money, or a mix of each

to people you'd vote FOR!

the schumers? dodds? clintons? kerrys? murrays? cantwells?

fuck 'em - do NOT vote FOR them! ta da!  

they want to persue and appease a phake right wing defined 'middle' of 8 or 12% of the people who are overwhelmed with slick marketing slogans, or who are wannabee storm troopers - go right ahead.

WE pissy moany whimpy snivelly "progressives" do NOT make people pay for shitting on us, so, they shit on us.

in a child care center, you'd better be loved instead of feared.

in big money politics, you'd better be feared over being loved.  (see The Prince.)

make the liars and losers pay, and they'll either quit being liars and losers, or, you'll replace them.

DC is filled with selfish brats, but, it ain't childcare.

rmm.  


I shoulda done a tangent check (4.00 / 3)
I checked off carter's name,
I voted FOR mondale,
I checked off dukakis' name,
I checked off clinton's name,
I checked off gore's name,
I voted FOR howard,
I checked off kerry's name,

I voted FOR the big zee-r-0; I thought he'd take a historical opportunity to make history ... and then came rahmgeithnersummers... ugh.

If I can't vote FOR you,
I ain't checking off your name.

I'll ONLY check off your name,
IF I can vote FOR you.

rmm.  


[ Parent ]
Here we go again, maybe Super Sunday gets me cranky ... (4.00 / 1)
... but Jeff Cohen lays out some really good stuff, some heavy stuff, things we can build with.  So I read this thread and it's still got a lot of general cheerleading, you tell 'em, Cohen, them Democrats sure are bad.

But the normal course for progress would be to go from the general (Cohen) to the specific, take pieces of what he says and WORK with them.  There is a rampant pathology here.

He notes that the left is extremely well-educated, knows its history and all, and points out the contradiction between its seeming sophistication and its utter impotence.

WORK WITH THAT!

He talks about primarying Obama and all the rest of the bastards.

WORK WITH THAT!

We cheer Cohen on yet embody the very pathology he exposes.

WORK WITH THAT!

"I don't mind if you don't like my manners, I don't like them myself. They are pretty bad. I grieve over them on long winter evenings." -- Marlowe


 

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