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The Scientific Basis for Taking On the Obamabots

by: TocqueDeville

Tue Dec 15, 2009 at 14:45:44 PST        
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To fight or not to fight. That was the question Budhy posed last week in regards to the more venal elements at Daily Kos. To be honest, even posing the question reminds me of a Monty Python script. The city is under siege and the elders are sitting around debating whether to defend it or not. But I understand the dilemma. And there were some good points on both sides. But I believe all questions are answered best by tackling them rationally. So let me address the issue in the most rational way I know how: scientifically.

Much of my educational background is in physics and philosophy. And I want to share with you a really cool way to see human interactions, and specifically politics, through the eyes of physics.  If you're physics averse, don't worry. There's nothing technical here. And as you will see, it is with this understanding of the laws of nature that we can draw some light on whether or not to engage the opposition.

The first thing to understand is that there can be no change without force. This is evident in Newton's first law of motion:

Every object in a state of uniform motion tends to remain in that state of motion unless an external force is applied to it.

In other words, absent an outside force, things tend to want to stay the same. Sound familiar?

Now it may seem a mere curiosity to apply the laws of physics to human behavior. But I assure it is far more important than that. For the underlying principle that governs how things change, and are changed, applies to all things - big and small, alive or inanimate. It even governs politics.

So when you notice that people, like trains, have their own intellectual inertia and will resist changing their minds or behavior unless pressure is applied, it's not a coincidence. This is a fundamental truth of nature. In almost all cases, whether its atomic physics or molecular biology, dramatic changes almost always occur from an outside force. Maybe that sounds familiar too.

Now, here's another concept that is important to understand. The measure of force between two objects is proportional to the difference between the properties of those objects. In other words, the bigger the difference, the greater the force. For example, if the two cars are traveling in the same direction (not much difference), their collision wont have much force at all. But if they are traveling in opposite directions (maximum difference), their collision will have a lot of force. This shows that force, and energy itself, is relative.  

In political terms, the political force between two parties depends how much their views differ. This website, for example, has very little, internal, political force compared to some place where say, socialists are put in the same arena as tea baggers. As a result, Docudharma generates relatively little change. Mostly, we are all here agreeing with each other and confirming and refining each other's views.

Understand, I am not implying that this is not valuable. It is, especially to those out fighting on the front lines every day. It's a nice place to come home to.

But you are not going to have much impact here. That's just a fact. If you want to have an impact, and cause more change, you have to increase the force. And that means jumping in to the rough waters, embracing the conflict, creating pressure and friction. It means going where the action is. And guess where that could be.

Daily Kos has some serious potential for force. The reason is, in their limitless attempts to accommodate Obama's dramatic betrayal of almost everything he appeared to stand for in the campaign, our once dedicated allies have actually embraced pretty much everything many of us (and many of them) had been fighting against for years.

Daily Kos, if you'll remember, used to be hostile territory for the DLC, Republican-lite segment of the Democratic party. Kos himself frequently took on the Bob Shrums of the world and a consensus emerged that rejected the idea that we had to tolerate selling out the interests of ordinary Americans to achieve electoral victory.

It was a hard fought consensus that involved much conflict, and much political force. I remember back in the early days a commenter accused me of waging "class warfare" by mentioning wealth inequality. Not a "troll". Not a plant. Just another Democrats who had been brainwashed by the corporate media.

But over time, one argument at a time, we chipped away and Daily Kos, which was quite centrist really when I arrived, slowly became pretty damn progressive. That consensus is gone now.

I can barely even recognize the place. I don't go there often, but some of the things I have seen there horrify me. And even when the recommended list isn't filled with cult worship and the intelligentsia's defense of everything they despised about Bush, it is almost devoid of progressive activism. Rare are the diaries really speaking truth to power now because that power often includes the administration.

If I frame what's happened at Daily Kos and across the progressive netroots in general as a battle in the war between the Plutocrats and the The People, I would have no choice but to call it a coup. I mean, the formally, pretty progressive Daily Kos recommended list has gone from a place where a lot of positive, progressive change took place to a propaganda front for the corporatist movement. I'm not exaggerating.

A classic example of this is the insipid diary, Let's thank our lucky stars for big corporate law firms. Suddenly, because Obama was being criticized for appointing a corporate lawyer who represented the terrorist sponsoring Chiquita banana company, hundreds of Daily Kos members voted up this piece of propaganda.

This is just the tip of the iceberg. I have observed a mass abandoning of long held beliefs, all for the sake of realignment with Obama's corporatist policies.

Lastly, does Daily Kos even matter? Some would argue that it is slipping into irrelevancy anyway and we should just ignore it. On this point I respectfully disagree. Daily Kos, for better or worse (worse I think) is like a hub for the progressive netroots. Not only does it have the most readers (among community blogs), it has the most powerful readers and contributors. A lot of power players drop by to urinate on the Daily Kos lawn. It is true Kos is slipping. But Daily Kos is the face of the Democratic netroots. And until that changes, it is the theater of operations for the fight to reform the Democratic party - or destroy it if need be.

But remember, this isn't really about Daily Kos the website anyway. Nor is it about Docudharma. It is about the people there. Many are still good progressives. And there are a lot of people who have been mislead. Some sense that they've been betrayed. Some are hurt. Others are lashing out. Some are just volunteers or paid operatives who have ulterior motives. They live to attack critics. They sit there sometimes 18 hours a day waiting to attack anyone who is perceived as a threat. Some of them form email lists so they can tag team opponents and exaggerate their numbers. I caught on to that when I was there.

Throughout this essay, as I've described the principle of political force, I have only referred to differences of opinion. But what we're dealing with is far more nefarious. We're dealing with people who will lie and distort to protect political power. They must be challenged.

I implore you to get back in the fight. Retake the rec'd list of Daily Kos. Stop letting yourselves get bullied and discouraged from participating. Daily Kos used to be the home of People Power. Now it's just an extension of the PR arm of the Obama campaign and those who benefit from his presidency.

There can be NO CHANGE without force. Without conflict. Without resistance. Without some pain. It's as much a law of nature as gravity.

TocqueDeville :: The Scientific Basis for Taking On the Obamabots
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Title WIN!!!! (4.00 / 23)
Wow Tocque, you never fail to disappoint.

Just wanted to throw you a happy hello before I read through this. I'm sure I'll be educated, you work always is.

Cheers

The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?' - 1984


LOL! (4.00 / 11)
you never fail to disappoint.

I think you meant something else.  Like the opposite.  But I agree with your buzarro world sentiments!  


i love the smell of bipartisanship in the morning...
smells like...fucktory. -bubanomics


[ Parent ]
Wow, I fucked that one up, LOL! (4.00 / 8)
I meant the opposite of that. Yeah, I feel teh stupid growing inside, need to fight it.

Eeep

The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?' - 1984


[ Parent ]
No beegie. We all maque misteaks. eom (4.00 / 3)


"This health care system is a moral atrocity." Dr. RalphDog (on blog)

[ Parent ]
What's funny is (4.00 / 6)
I didn't even catch it.

Because i knew what you meant.



"Never let a serious crisis go to waste. What I mean by that is it's an opportunity to do things you couldn't do before." -- Rahm Emanuel


[ Parent ]
As the worst of the lot (4.00 / 1)
I can't criticize, but I can laugh when it works anyway!  


i love the smell of bipartisanship in the morning...
smells like...fucktory. -bubanomics


[ Parent ]
glad to hear this perspective (4.00 / 16)
as i said last week, count me in after the 18th.  i've tried to keep up with reccing comments and have corresponded a bit with meteor blades, but until the 18th, i can't do anything substantive.

i am wondering if markos just threw down the gauntlet today with "kill the bill".  don't have time to read what i am sure is a cesspool of comments in his diary or tomp's.  hopefully later.

aka conchita


He did? (4.00 / 12)
Whoa. I guess I'll get some popcorn and head over for a while. This sounds fun.

[ Parent ]
Holy Shit (4.00 / 12)
Dean too! I had almost given up on that SOB. God live him.

[ Parent ]
Me too, I love him, too. (4.00 / 3)
He's my hero.

"This health care system is a moral atrocity." Dr. RalphDog (on blog)

[ Parent ]
If I may ask, (4.00 / 6)
and you can feel free not to tell me, what happens on the 18th?

I don't like Congress.

[ Parent ]
semester ends (4.00 / 7)
and if i don't sleep for the next few days i will have finished all of the projects due.  which reminds me....

aka conchita

[ Parent ]
That happens to you too huh? (4.00 / 6)

Some mornings I really need an irresistible outside force acting on me to get me moving... ;-)


[ Parent ]
some mornings (4.00 / 5)
it's morning when i go to bed....  ;)

aka conchita

[ Parent ]
And some mornings (4.00 / 6)
it was yesterday when I got out of bed...

[ Parent ]
Ah, finals week. (4.00 / 4)
I'm so glad to be done with that shit.

Maybe I should go to grad school. Hmm.

I don't like Congress.


[ Parent ]
Ah, gotcha. :) (4.00 / 3)
Good luck with the projects and the Jolt. :P

I don't like Congress.

[ Parent ]
thanks :) (4.00 / 4)
i can use all the help i can get.

aka conchita

[ Parent ]
to be honest (4.00 / 9)
I don't think the Rec List on Daily Kos is necessarily the best barometer for tracking the pulse of Democratic enthusiasm or lack thereof.  Case in point -- even with the Rec-listed diaries that defend just about everything Obama has done so far -- Democratic enthusiasm is still much, much worse than Republican enthusiasm right now, if the polls that Steve Singiser has been posting are accurate.

I think the Rec List primarily measures which diarists are most likely to be read and which of their diaries are likely to receive the most feedback (both positive and negative).


I didn't say it was... (4.00 / 9)
..."the best barometer for tracking the pulse of Democratic enthusiasm or lack thereof".


[ Parent ]
Right, but I do agree with Toque that (4.00 / 8)
Dkos is the most well-known, well-read of all the left-wing blogs. Being on the rec list on Dkos is an illusion of power, but that's the thing: that illusion is important to some people.

Probably not most of us, but yeah, to some people. Fuck, Alan Grayson loves MoT.

I don't like Congress.


[ Parent ]
I don't want to exaggerate... (4.00 / 14)
...the significance of Daily Kos either. But as far as progressive blogging goes, it's the hub.

I would like to see that change. I would like to see a new progressive hub emerge that is not Democratic.

But the most important thing about DK is powerful people use it as a bellweather. If they would realize the power in that, and unite to scare the shit out of Democrats by collectively agreeing to boycott the next election, you may see the Dems respond.

But too many still believe the way to get progressive action is to shower the leadership with rose pedals and photo love.


[ Parent ]
It is the hub. (4.00 / 2)
Most folks probably only figure that out once they leave, or maybe know it in theory, but don't necessarily "feel" it 'til they leave. Dkos has its hands in almost every single one of the progressive sister sites, including this one. But, often, the same cannot be said in reverse. (FDL might be the only slight exception.)

"Bellweather" is an excellent assessment of how it functions. I really wish that they'd use more of their power for Good, rather than for Evil, because you're right - we could affect the Democrats directly through actions on Daily Kos.

I honestly don't mind too many of the photos/rose petal diaries, because some are really cute and sweet, and I definitely like the Obamas personalities. The entire family is just fucking cool.

But at the expense of more important issues, and more important diaries? Not so much.

If you don't want to see a new Democratic hub emerge, I assume you'd like one that's more lefty?

I don't like Congress.


[ Parent ]
Bellwether is the word for dKos all right. (4.00 / 8)
The term is derived from the Middle English bellewether and refers to the practice of placing a bell around the neck of a castrated ram (a wether) leading its flock of sheep. The movements of the flock could be noted by hearing the bell before the flock was in sight.
source


Visit The Dream Antilles, a Lit Blog.

[ Parent ]
That is very funny... nt (4.00 / 6)


[ Parent ]
I've been working on MB and Kos.... (4.00 / 9)
I keep reminding them that dkos use to be biggest, bad-assed reform blog in town.  Now, it's more like the HuffingtonPost and DNC blog rolled into one.  Chris at OpenLeft is pissed and feeling sold out. Glad to hear that.  This essay on what a disaster the HCR bill is is very succinct and good.  

I have suspected that some of the netroots bloggers were co-opted by Clinton right after their first summons to sup with him.  Not endorsing during the primaries, the repetitive party talking points, the incessant fund raising for so called progressives that lied through their teeth and then did exactly as they pleased were all indications.  

 


[ Parent ]
kos seems to be (4.00 / 7)
taking on the zombies and siding with the 'kill it' crowd not for principles alone, but because of the numbers he getting. Kos is about electoral politics and winning it's what gets him on TV. The numbers of the Democrat's who have been demoralized, rank and file not net roots, are slipping so the party zombies on lines threats of, Oh nos Palin's going to be pres and pragmatism via blind support are losing some ground. Meanwhile my liberal Democratic middle class neighbors are grumbling more and more, and have no Obama love, they bare out the numbers.          

[ Parent ]
Sit Out The Vote (4.00 / 2)
I made a brief comment in favor of an election boycott last night and I've been researching the subject most of the day.

Here are two articles I found that any one interested in the subject might find informative.

First from The Monthly Review

Next from Oped News

Here's a quote from the Oped News article.

Ultimately what we are talking about here is not reform but revolution. Voting in the absence of meaningful choice is a poor substitute for real democratic processes. It is an exercise in self-deception and futility designed to keep the working class people servile and marginalized.

Electoral boycotts are one of many tools available to us as we plant the seeds of revolution and create the atmosphere for a major paradigm shift sometime in the future. Boycotts are a peaceful way of hastening the change that will eventually make a more just society possible; a world in which just people, not wealth and privilege, decides the future.

An election boycott could be a powerful tool.I think the time has come to use it.

Sit Out The Vote  no vote = no confidence


[ Parent ]
I have written about this extensively (4.00 / 7)
I have tried for many years now to sell this idea. I have packaged it in many veneers, dressed it as ponies and pigs, and tried to make it as palatable as possible to get past the "Nader is evil" mentality.

One of my latest incarnations I posted here at DD not too long ago. Here's a snippet:


How do they do it? That is the question progressives should be asking right now. How do the insurance companies manage to kill health care reform in a supposedly democratic republic, where public support for health care reform, and I mean the kind progressives can get behind, is overwhelming?

In a word: leverage.

The insurance companies have leverage over politicians. Most of that leverage comes in the form of money. God do they have a lot of money. But they also have something else. They are loyal to no one and no party. They don't care if you're Democrat, Republican, or Green, as long as you can be sufficiently  bought off, or sufficiently threatened into compliance.

There are after all only two forms of leverage in politics. Threat and reward. Or, more traditionally, carrots and sticks. The insurance lobby uses both to great effect. Progressives know all about carrots and sticks. Carrots for Democrats, sticks for Republicans.

But special interests like the insurance lobby aren't so choosy. And that's where they get their real power. They are just as happy, for the most part, to buy a Democrat as a Republican. And they are just as happy to run either out of town.

Progressives don't use this power because we know that using sticks on Democrats may result in Republican victories. So no matter what some Democrats do, the worst they can expect is a primary challenge which, as we saw with Lieberman, will probably fail.

So the end result is progressives have little or no leverage over Democrats. And, as a result, progressives are in a constant state of frustration. Sure, Democrats come crawling at election time. But one fundamental, yet unstated reality pervades: Where ya gonna go?

Some, in an attempt to remedy the situation, have advocated making the Democratic party more progressive by taking it over. "Be the party you want," they say. "Infiltrate."

This is a pipe dream. The entire structure of the two party system is designed to prevent that from happening. There will be no crashing of the gates. No progressive Democratic revolution. I explained the pipe dream in more detail here. But long story short, almost every bought out, sold out, corrupt Democrat in Washington started off trying to crash the gates.

The truth is, both parties are controlled by the same monied interests. This way, as the late Carroll Quigley observed, when an election occurs, real power doesn't change hands.

The Democratic party is not designed to represent the common people. It is designed to contain us. To create the illusion of representation so that we don't revolt.

So in lieu of the pipe dream, I was asked recently what I recommended. The answer is simple politics 101: I recommend doing precisely what every powerful interest group in Washington does. I recommend using leverage.

But that is risky is it not? I mean, if we use sticks on Democrats in general elections, we could lose our majority in Congress. The White House. Right?

You don't have a fucking majority in Congress. Or the White House. Please figure that out. Your majority is an illusion. We don't have Democrats and Republicans. We have "in-the-pocket-of-big-oil" and "not-in-the-pocket-of-big-oil". We have "in-the-pocket-of-big-pharma" and "not-in-the-pocket-of-big-pharma." Those are the real parties.

Please figure this out: Parties are illusions that only start to become real when you get to the bottom of the food chain. In the Senate, they are almost all illusion. It's all about what interest you serve. And that's all about the money. The rest is a sideshow.

Only when we realize this, and use our leverage accordingly, will we gain real political power. The only leverage a politician understands is the power to make him or her LOSE.

You want a more progressive Democratic party? You have to be willing to lose. It's that simple. Sure, it may cost them their "majority", but they will never fuck with us again.

This is how you get "better" Democrats. This is we change this country. THis is what our enemies have long understood. There is no other way. Leverage.




[ Parent ]
Very good (4.00 / 3)
I assumed you were knowledgeable regarding boycotts and posted those links for any of your readers who's interest may have been piqued by your comment.

The present situation seems like an optimal moment for an electoral boycott to achieve the highest bang for the buck  

It's a mid-term so voter turnout will already be low.

New voters who had previously been cynical about the system but turned out in '08 for "hope and change" have had their cynicism confirmed ,they won't be back.

Likewise many young first time voters have had their hopes crushed,they're gone.

Independents? Generally speaking,and any present company excepted,they are a fickle bunch and given a frying pan/fire dilemma could easily be convinced to stay home.

Republicans? they're not being represented any better by their reps than we are by ours.They're persuadable on this point.

In short,a modest amount of energy judiciously applied could have a major impact.      

There is a down side.Some good progressives will go down but they have become so marginalized and their influence is obviously so insignificant that I believe it's a price we can afford pay.

Just some thoughts.

As an aside I loved your take on debating tactics.It's been many,many moons since I studied rhetoric and debate but I do remember,and any street corner smartass will confirm,that a stiletto delivered up close with a smile is much more effective than a broad sword swung in anger.    

   

Sit Out The Vote  no vote = no confidence


[ Parent ]
just a quick note here (0.00 / 0)
aiming political leverage at Congress is not really the best approach, though I agree with you on how to leverage pols. The real issue is who controls the Narrative? The MSM should be the focal-point of political action. First of all, it is very political. What does get covered and is not covered is political. My wife worked as an editor and I worked for a K St. firm that helps create news and lobbies networks. That's where the action is.

HCR debate is a case and point. No facts, no reform. MSM has not given the American people the essential facts in any meaningful way. Thus reform is impossible. Never mind the lobbyists. Reform is impossible without data.

Visit me at Sacred Bells


[ Parent ]
this is (4.00 / 5)
even more important than what you wrote above:

I would like to see that change. I would like to see a new progressive hub emerge that is not Democratic.

But the most important thing about DK is powerful people use it as a bellweather. If they would realize the power in that, and unite to scare the shit out of Democrats by collectively agreeing to boycott the next election, you may see the Dems respond.

I think this has all unraveled so fast that DKos could not adjust quickly enough.  There are strong progressive voices over there that are getting rec'd up and I just saw a poll that was overwhelmingly for killing the bill.

I have no problem with going over there and fighting the good fight, but I also think that this site, just as much as any other, has a chance to be a progressive hub.

I don't think I can swallow Democrats any more.  I just can't.  Enough.  I don't have that many years left.  If the good Dems can't stand up to the corporatists, i'm not much interested in them either.  


[ Parent ]
What about boosting FireDogLake? (4.00 / 2)
Or Marcy Wheeler's section of FireDogLake?

Viable ideas? Jane and Marcy do seem to be in the rolodexes of some media bigwigs.

"This health care system is a moral atrocity." Dr. RalphDog (on blog)


[ Parent ]
Illusion? (4.00 / 4)
Are you saying Turkana is NOT a god?  And I pray to trilobites every night!  


i love the smell of bipartisanship in the morning...
smells like...fucktory. -bubanomics


[ Parent ]
You're going to have to change (4.00 / 1)
your sig again. :P Hee hee.

Of course not! Turkana is a god, goddamnit! So is buhdy, MoT, Tocque, Tom, Superbowl ... what past/present rec listers am I missing here?

And me and Robyn are goddesses. :)

I don't like Congress.


[ Parent ]
For what it's worth (4.00 / 19)
Since I'm banned from DKos, I have been maximizing conflict on other sites. Mainly, I have been winning over wingnuts to anti corporatism. It's very rewarding.


Good skill set. (4.00 / 5)


I don't like Congress.

[ Parent ]
Teach me, sensei! (4.00 / 6)
I have been working on the same idea, and when I mention Corporatism in the streets people perk the fuck up and pay attention.

But that is NYC, will it work in Peoria?

The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?' - 1984


[ Parent ]
You won't need it in Peoria. :) (4.00 / 5)


I don't like Congress.

[ Parent ]
The Logan Runners Salute you. (4.00 / 3)


Chaotic Neutral, Drinker of Milkshakes

[ Parent ]
we should be (4.00 / 3)
convincing teabaggers that corporatist policies don't benefit them, whether they're from the left or right.  We have more in common with them than with the DK mainstream.  Whoever harnesses the populist outrage wins.  


i love the smell of bipartisanship in the morning...
smells like...fucktory. -bubanomics


[ Parent ]
Thanks for that work. (4.00 / 1)
Truly appreciated.

"This health care system is a moral atrocity." Dr. RalphDog (on blog)

[ Parent ]
Would love to see some examples of that! (4.00 / 1)
if you care to share.  If not, I understand.  :)

"Never let a serious crisis go to waste. What I mean by that is it's an opportunity to do things you couldn't do before." -- Rahm Emanuel

[ Parent ]
Great work. Tocque (4.00 / 4)
I for one think that some of the people that Dkos have banned for minor infractions of some very arbitrary rules has been a loss for the site. The loss of you, ek, inky, and others may have pleased a very small group of Obama cheerleaders and progressive naysayers but there are many who have expressed their dismay about the right shift of the comments despite lefties like Meteor Blades and Markos. Markos needs to restate his mission for the site to better reflect his own views. Just electing more Democrats doesn't cut it these days.

It is great to have you here. This essay has really helped me resolve some of my conflicts about remaining an active participant at Dkos. I had my exchange with Meteor Blades regarding the psychopathic cretins that haunt the threads that take Obama's policies to task and their nasty pejoratives and personal invective. The reliance on community action to stop this has been useless and it now needs more vigilance on the part of the administrators to stop this harassment and stalking of the Left of the Left progressives.

You and buhdy have given me a lot to ponder. Thanks


"By the pricking of my thumb, something wicked this way comes.", Wm. Shakespeare, "Macbeth"


[ Parent ]
No thanks. (4.00 / 11)
I can't do it right now. Too much bullshit.

Goddamn, so many people hate me there that you just know they're monitoring this motherfucking comment. It's really fucking stupid.

My point: I gotta lick my wounds for a bit. Then we'll see.

Why can't you do it? :P (Hee hee, just playin'.)

I don't like Congress.


I wanted to go into a bit of technique (4.00 / 19)
but felt it was too long as is.

Let me just mention it here briefly. There are all different kinds of force in debate - gentle, inductive, mockery, sarcasm, hostility all the way up to severe attack mode. Believe me, as some of you may know, I've tried them all.

I now believe that the best way is what I'll call the Bill Moyers method. Notice how he never gets emotional about the topic he's covering. He just reports the facts and asks the questions.

Some progressive type broadcasters try to impose their own outrage on the stories they cover and as a result, greatly weaken the outrage response of the viewer. It's as though they're being outraged for you.

I really believe the more you kick ass without showing emotion or getting personal, the more effective it is.

I know for some that I may not be the best messenger for this. Call it lessons learned.

Something I started right before I was banned which I thought was pretty effective is when your opponet goes ad hominem, and start attacking you personally, post excerpts of new stories that you want people to know about.

I did it to DHinMI one day and it appeared to drive him crazy. He would spew some venom and I would reply by excerpting Naomi Kleins' Shock Doctrine.

Funny shit.


[ Parent ]
Heh, yeah. (4.00 / 5)
I don't think I ever had too much of a problem there with getting too personal with insults (save for a handful of times), but the emotional thing is definitely harder for me. Plus, I was just dissed in a big-ass way, so I'm not exactly feeling ... altruistic about Dkos.

And that's the way it's going to stay until I'm done healing and other hippy shit like that. I certainly respect what you're saying, and I agree with much of it, but I know my limits.

Also, I'd forgotten how well you write. :) It's good to see you again. You scared the shit out of me, back in the day.

I don't like Congress.


[ Parent ]
whatever happened (4.00 / 3)
to DH?  He killed me with his open hostility for his audience. I was a big fan.  It's like he was Charles Groden on Letterman.  


i love the smell of bipartisanship in the morning...
smells like...fucktory. -bubanomics


[ Parent ]
Who cares? (if you'll pardon my indelicate phrasing) (4.00 / 2)
Too mean a writer for my taste.

"This health care system is a moral atrocity." Dr. RalphDog (on blog)

[ Parent ]
I'm a fan of (4.00 / 1)
bad theater.  


i love the smell of bipartisanship in the morning...
smells like...fucktory. -bubanomics


[ Parent ]
God I hated that prick (4.00 / 3)
I heard he got banned.  Which is weird.  He seemed to be Kos' right hand hatchet man.

"Never let a serious crisis go to waste. What I mean by that is it's an opportunity to do things you couldn't do before." -- Rahm Emanuel

[ Parent ]
What I loved about reading his diaries (4.00 / 1)
was his open contempt for his readers.   He picked fights above the fold just to make sure there was a fight in each and every diary.  

When he announced he was moving to MN to run the campaign for El Tinklenberg against crazy Shelley, I made an innocent remark about needing to go for populism and get down into the muck with her.  He said that's not what the district is about.  Nope, don't listen to me, I only live here with the mouthbreathers.  Whatever.

Then he announced that El has ceased the campaign within about two weeks of his arrival.  I asked him if he had that affect on everyone he meets.  "Dana, nice to meet you. Having listened to you for over an hour, I think I'll commite political suicide now".

It was comedy gold.  And I'm glad El dropped out and hope that Dana isn't involved in the other candidates' strategies.  


i love the smell of bipartisanship in the morning...
smells like...fucktory. -bubanomics


[ Parent ]
The guy was an ass (0.00 / 0)
He got banned, I believe, by precipitating a thing with slink about being a paid blogger.

Then someone revealed how (if I recall correctly) he was pretty much the same thing, and they chopped his hypocritical, alpha-male balls off.

It was fucking glorious.

mbr + dv + woyg


[ Parent ]
new and improved (4.00 / 1)
version of posting recipes.

For some reason, this reminds me of the trick of returning spam prepaid postal envelopes with literature you want people to know about. Sort of a "Now that I've got your attention" move.

"We are in the Age of Shiva, an age of death and rebirth. If we only focus on what is past we feel loss. If we focus on new beginnings we feel anticipation, like looking forward to a new day without knowing quite what the weather is going to be like."


[ Parent ]
a separate piece would be cool (4.00 / 2)
on writing/blogging for issues/action; or other approaches in blogland. Shapeshifters R Us. lol.

I dont write essays much but I comment a lot. In my writing, when I do decide to sink my teeth into something, I tend to be understated. i.e. I have the opposite problem. But thats okay, thats just who I am and nobody ever listens to me anyway LOL boo hoo.

Lately Im aware that I see/hear a generational difference, in style at least. Shiz and keirdubois and some others, younger than us Boomers, ... well, just like life (TV commercials drive me CRAZY sometimes)... with that In Your Face tone. Ya know, like the Caveman Geico set? Its a style. It brings out the Miss Manners in me, I confess, and then I feel like an old fart. Well I am an old fart. heh.

No justice, no peace.


[ Parent ]
Exactly (4.00 / 1)
It's a style. It's a figurative presentation. It's a way to get really meaty and piss people off and make them think and for me, it's pretty easy.

It's also king-hell fun. I would advise against taking any of it personally. Taking it seriously is, well, a toss-up.

By the way, I fucking hate every fucking Geico commercial ever. EVER.

mbr + dv + woyg


[ Parent ]
It's like confusing the cat (4.00 / 2)
I have found that if I use Obama as a source it confuses them. Thomas Jefferson works also, he's harder to write off then FDR maybe because he is more removed from the current break down politically. I worked for the Obama primary campaign and if nothing else it was a learning experience in the art of non confrontational persuasion.lol. In the indoctrination session the fist thing they said was don't talk policy, just tell your own story. Do not attack Hillary personally or ideologically as it reinforces and personalizes their stance, instead respect their reasons and beliefs try to apply them to your case for Obama.  Most importantly if they are hostile and entrenched write them off literally, as they are a waste of time, and your just feeding the other side. Never thought that I would be applying these techniques to fight those I recruited. I should have listened to the guy who let me talk was intelligent, young and a lefty, not a HRC fan, and finally just said 'I don't trust him'. Who did he vote for and why?      

     


[ Parent ]
Ooops, spelling police here, Tocque! (4.00 / 5)
In political terms, the political force between two parties depends how how much their views differ

Just thought you'd like to know and edit appropriately

The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?' - 1984


LOL! (4.00 / 5)
I have never seen you do that before.

I don't like Congress.

[ Parent ]
He's probably never needed to before (4.00 / 5)
I'm grateful. I have no qualms about fixing typos after they're posted.

[ Parent ]
Docudharma: a nice place to come home to. (4.00 / 14)
A MEN!!!!

I think I might have to change my sig for this one and switch the one I have here over to Orangeville

The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?' - 1984


Per this essay, that's an excellent choice for DK. As (0.00 / 0)
is my sig there.

(do I even have one here?)

"This health care system is a moral atrocity." Dr. RalphDog (on blog)


[ Parent ]
Ah yes, I do. That'll do, both places. eom (0.00 / 0)


"This health care system is a moral atrocity." Dr. RalphDog (on blog)

[ Parent ]
Amen to that (4.00 / 1)


"Whatever depends on conditions is empty of intrinsic reality"
What excellent instruction could be more amazing than this discovery? Jey Tsong Khapa - Essence of True Eloquence Translated by Thurman, R.    


[ Parent ]
war between the Plutocrats and the The People (4.00 / 13)
Damn straight Tocque! That is the best way to frame the Prorgressive cause against the rest.

Do you stand for Corporations, or for people?

Nail meet head

The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?' - 1984


unfortunately, the people are siding with the plutocrats (4.00 / 2)
... largely because the MSM and professional mind-control wizards are using the art of illusion to make up = down.


Visit me at Sacred Bells

[ Parent ]
I seriously question whether there has been (4.00 / 11)
a mass abandoning of long held beliefs over there. I really don't think that people abandon long held honest and real beliefs that easily. Rather I think that anyone who appears to do so never really honestly held the beliefs they professed or appeared to hold in the first place.

I agree pretty much with your premise that force applied is what creates change, but I think I'd interpret that where people are concerned to be that people don't change without social force and/or force of self interest driving them to change.

Newton's first law of motion applies to physical objects of course, but I don't know if it can be said to apply to psychology in the same way. I doubt it.

But I do like the metaphor.



A lot of the people who post there in reflexive defense of (4.00 / 8)
the Democrats were/are new-ish in terms of user ids.  Some were DLC-lite personalities from the very beginning.

I questioned it a lot (but again, had to keep my mouth shut) a lot when I was there.  Two sudden influxes of brand new users .. one during the primaries and another influx after the election .. all in defense of Obama and making all kinds of apologia for the Democrats not getting anything done?

It doesn't smell right.  It never smelt right.

And for me there has been psychic stress for a very long time.  The problem is I am not stupid.  Oh, I play stupid on TV, but I really am at least somewhat bright even if it takes me longer to get there on some things.

And out of whatever, the political culture of Daily Kos, certain things are not said and are against the rules to say.  It's their right to set their own rules for their own site, and many of these rules I even agreed with, and many I even helped enforce via community moderation while I was there -- even if I only kinda halfway agreed with them (I am sorta dutiful that way).

But there comes a point in time when your every waking thought would get you banned.  I am not a troll type person.  I am not going to stupidly scream "censorship" when I know everything I say would go against the rules.

Make a promise, take a vow, and trust your feelings, it's easy now, understand the voice within, and feel a change, already beginning - Moody Blues, The Voice


[ Parent ]
every waking thought would get you banned (4.00 / 8)
is probably the reason I don't post much there anymore too. I'd have to be "diplomatic" to the point of mangling my own meaning beyond recognition. But I do toss in the odd comment stink bomb now and then...

[ Parent ]
Oh, well, the were a couple of breaking points (4.00 / 5)
for me .. I'm really on a 60 day hiatus (enforced via firewall) .. I've literally firewalled myself from even being able to access Daily Kos!  After that, I'll reconsider.

One breaking point was CiTS diaries where she was really saying quite reasonable things and getting comments like "this diary is a piece of shit"

After that, I started realizing that I had been at least occasionally hide rating things where my real feelings were "right on!"

I mean -- get real .. being some kind of enforcer for shit I didn't even believe?

Make a promise, take a vow, and trust your feelings, it's easy now, understand the voice within, and feel a change, already beginning - Moody Blues, The Voice


[ Parent ]
Heh. Yeah... that would be (4.00 / 3)
time for a break, I think.

You obviously didn't need to do as much self examination to block yourself from there as a lot of the people there should be doing... ;-)



[ Parent ]
Might I suggest.. (4.00 / 1)
"Crossposting" this at the Great Orange Satan? It's certainly "reclist worthy."

Heh he was banned. . . (4.00 / 3)


[ Parent ]
Banned (4.00 / 1)
Their (our?) loss.

[ Parent ]
Heh he was banned. . . (4.00 / 1)


[ Parent ]
What's with your two comments lately? (4.00 / 1)


I don't like Congress.

[ Parent ]
What's with your two comments lately? :P (4.00 / 4)


I don't like Congress.

[ Parent ]
I think it is because I am pissed and I (4.00 / 1)
haven't turned off my computer in a while, I tend to hit the return button more now that I am using a cordless keyboard, thinking that I didn't hit the button properly.

There, that is my excuse...

I am working on it.  


[ Parent ]
Np. (4.00 / 1)
Just mostly kidding. :P

I don't like Congress.

[ Parent ]
Somebody else would have to do that, (4.00 / 5)
and I think MB has recently said that the term "Obamabot" calls for immediate HRs.

So I'm not sure that's the best idea.

I don't like Congress.


[ Parent ]
He also stated (4.00 / 2)
that calling someone an Obama hater was hr-able as well. You had to see the uproar over that. To a degree it is the fault of the admins for allowing this to go on and the banning of some of the best left of the left diarists for arbitrary infractions, like Toque.

"By the pricking of my thumb, something wicked this way comes.", Wm. Shakespeare, "Macbeth"

[ Parent ]
A different physics concept is that of a sudden phase shift. (4.00 / 11)
You allude to this in your acknowledgement that Daily Kos has become less of a place to fight for change and more of a place to defend the status quo.

After the election, the argument I wanted to make was the exact opposite of the Obamabots.  Indeed, the time for the most vicious astringent criticism is after the people we worked so hard to put into office actually got there.  I wanted Daily Kos to shift rapidly from a "more and better Democrats" mode to a "speaking truth to power" mode.

After that, I made some allowance for a honeymoon period.  But it never changed from that honeymoon period.

Now there's a phrase that is more in the world of computer science: Incompatibility.

Don't get me wrong.  I like your diary.  I am considering it.  But I wonder about the fundamental problem with doing what it is would need to be done to retake Daily Kos.

And I would argue that the site mission is now and forever after fundamentally incompatible with progressive goals in an environment where Democrats have the majority and continue to play almost exclusively to corporate interests.  Daily Kos isn't a progressive website by default, it's a Democratic website.  It's privately owned.  Without the leadership of Daily Kos shifting direction and clarifying a site mission that is more compatible with real change in the present environment, all the talking in the world can do nothing, where you will simply be hide rated out of existence or banned.

And the problem is certain things you would have to say there you cannot say.  You cannot be honest with regards to the current political climate if you think the wrong thing.  You can try to say that the Democrats have completely lost their way (false) but if you go with a balls-out attack on the Democratic Party and the anti-little-people attitude that has infested it at the highest levels of Congress, you will not survive there, even if it is true.

And that is why I left.  The site owners there have no interest in what I have to say as of now.

Make a promise, take a vow, and trust your feelings, it's easy now, understand the voice within, and feel a change, already beginning - Moody Blues, The Voice


Good points (4.00 / 10)
I just don't buy the significance of the site owner and his admins.

I really believe, and this is usually confirmed by the comment count, that the real action is in the diaries. I personally don't even look at the left hand column when I go there. And judging by the activity of the diaries versus the front page, I'm guessing I'm not the only one.

Look, a big part of the value of Daily Kos is it's PR value. For that it's a pretty powerful site. A lot of people see it as a bellwether and so when you populate the Rec list with progressive diaries and ones that threaten the power structure of the Democratic party, you are making a difference.

It's also valuable as a means to win hearts and minds. One debate at a time, we push people left.  


[ Parent ]
Well what I'm really referring to is the general insistence (4.00 / 5)
that diaries and comments are supposed to be in keeping with (or at least irrelevant to, as opposed to incompatible with) the site mission.

If what the FP'ers want to do is prop up Democrats, no matter what they do, they can do that on their own time.  And I don't think they really want to do that -- but the site mission is pretty unequivocal, and people refer to it when adjudicating content, whether they are FP'ers or not.

You're absolutely right, the real action is in the diaries and comments -- but even there, you reach a flash point when you realize you cannot even be compatible with the site mission as described.

Make a promise, take a vow, and trust your feelings, it's easy now, understand the voice within, and feel a change, already beginning - Moody Blues, The Voice


[ Parent ]
Well, (4.00 / 5)
I don't think you should take that too seriously either. I did well there for years in violation of the FAQ. I had multiple recommended diaries advocating NOT voting for Democrats. I even had one, which wasn't recommended but DHinMI commented in nicely (yes, amazing) where I advocated supporting Cindy Sheehan's independent run against Nancy Pelosi.

Now granted, I had some serious enemies. And my violations of the sated purpose of the site really got under their skin. But I lasted a long time saying almost anything I wanted. They got me in the end, but not until after I had done a lot of good/damage, depending on your viewpoint. :)


[ Parent ]
Heh, I liked you when you were on Daily Kos. (4.00 / 1)
Now that you're banned, I like you even more.  You're ballsy -- and good.  Either one alone is useless without the other.

Now I don't want to shift my line of attack without warning/acknowledging here but this is a discussion not an argument.  So I'm shifting a bit....

More importantly than your ballsiness is that you do first class work more often than not.  I'm not kissing your ass, I'm trying to make a point.  A lot of the Democrat-negative diaries that are posted on Daily Kos ARE crap and trash.  Heck, I'd put my record of diarying on Daily Kos as about 30% worthwhile and 70% trash, even without explicitly going against the flow.

But I'm about as good as you are at keeping my emotions under control and not being drawn into flame wars, when I put my mind to it.  But I have never held that one must be a good diarist to participate meaningfully on a political blog.

And we here on Docudharma and other blogs have now been fed into the Daily Kos fire control system.  How do you propose that reflexive rejection be undermined?  I see that as an intrinsic good, but without extremely good control, good quality and the rest, it would be difficult to break through.  Maybe even with the best quality.

Make a promise, take a vow, and trust your feelings, it's easy now, understand the voice within, and feel a change, already beginning - Moody Blues, The Voice


[ Parent ]
Well Tocque...You have the fortunate distinction of drawing (4.00 / 3)
the ire of DHinMI..

Which means you were correct in anything you posted that he had opposition to.

They have nothing in their whole Imperial arsenal to break one Irishman who won't be broken- Bobby Sands


[ Parent ]
then how come if (4.00 / 5)
they are professional infiltrators they are so fucking dumb, illogical and such horrible debaters. The hardest part for me is they seem unable to grasp any concept of issues, representational governance and for a group that bills itself as pragmatists rather then purists, they are politically clueless. It's the same mentality that kept the Democrats out of power for so long. The DLCer, free market greed will make you rich rings hollow when they are systematically killing the middle class. They are supporting what's eating them.  

If their plants they have to be Republicans. I wasn't a personal 'hater 'until they remade Obama in their image a pollyanna useless saint, a bad chessplayer, who has to kill and keep us safe from the bogeymen of unhinged wig nuts and the cohorts of evil terrorists. All policy must be supported as it is all good if Obama says so, end of debate.

The last chat I had with some of the bots was just like a scene from Idiocry, 'but plants love electrolytes'... ''you mean the toilet water?'. Its hard work to have encounters with this level of density and nastiness. How do you argue with 'Get a mop' when  the issue at hand is DoJ protecting Jon Woo from lawsuits?

As regards to dkos being a draw for pols and writers, this element is driving them away even the so called 'moderates' from outside including Dem. pols are out to get Obama, especially if they bring up any issue that might show him in a bad light. Markos is not benefiting from this, I'm glad they have turned their insanity his way.

I do not write diary's so I'm able to pick and choose where I take them on. Maybe I'll start writing diaries give them some fresh blood.    
           


[ Parent ]
I love that movie (4.00 / 4)
and that's a good question. Why are they so fucking dumb?

Noweasals isn't dumb. There are others too are quite effective at subverting debate n=and almost tricking people into being pro-corporate.

The Obots are a different matter. But they're not the ones I'm most concerned with.  


[ Parent ]
ah ha (4.00 / 4)
I was about to jump in here, but I had to go stir something (in the kitchen!).

In my mind, some are "bots" and others are "drones". Sorry, if theres better terms Ill use 'em. Loyalists? and infiltrators?

Some people are hardline Dem's and they tow the party line. Some are really just out and out gaga for Obama, for a variety of reasons. Then theres some who are just ... mean spirited, and well.  Then theres the lawyers. Then theres the ex-nuns. heh.

It is a bit like high school... Cheerleaders/Football Teams; Brainiacs; and the rest of those cliques. Greasers. LOL. Glad I found the Weirdo's over here at DD ... lol. Too big and crazy for me over there.

This is a great essay, Ill come back to it.

No justice, no peace.


[ Parent ]
Heh, off topic but to me what's really interesting is (4.00 / 5)
how we can in real life be absolutely nothing like our blog personas.

I know that I write on political blogs like an unholy, rather aggressive cross between a frat boy and a Borg or the Architect of the Matrix.

But I'm not like that at all in real life.  I'm shy and reticent with my opinions in the real world unless I'm crossed, big time -- then my evil twin comes out.

Make a promise, take a vow, and trust your feelings, it's easy now, understand the voice within, and feel a change, already beginning - Moody Blues, The Voice


[ Parent ]
true (4.00 / 5)
Im rather shy and reticient in blogville... but I think my evil twin is about to emerge!! ha ha

No justice, no peace.

[ Parent ]
I know. Aggression really really doesn't go over well (4.00 / 3)
in the written format of the blog world.  There is something about it that goes straight into your brain, bypassing your other nerves and works like nails on chalkboard to the person reading it.  I'm convinced it's something related to the medium -- the standard reaction to perceived aggression, I mean -- even when it only seems like that.

I just have trouble, uh, helping it.  When I have a point of view I want to explicate what I want to do is be reductionist and hyper-empirical.  It might help to say here that I'm a programmer and data analyst by trade so when feel like I need to get inside something I become like an Agent (heh, Matrix reference again) and start cutting.

How does one avoid that?  I am not sure I've found a way yet.

Make a promise, take a vow, and trust your feelings, it's easy now, understand the voice within, and feel a change, already beginning - Moody Blues, The Voice


[ Parent ]
You Just Don't Get It... (4.00 / 2)
Corporations are the most highly evolved community in human history. We should be thankful for their emergence into our tawdry and unkempt existence...... I get a warm and fuzzy feeling after watching the latest Nike advert, there is hope.

~snark~

Authoritarian political ideologies have a vested interest in promoting fear. ----Susan Sontag


[ Parent ]
Who are you most concerned with? (4.00 / 1)


[ Parent ]
dKos is now a watering hole of the powerful (4.00 / 6)
And they know how to astroturf: they have their own bots populating the membership, causing it to escalate. That is why diaries worshipful of Obama rise quickly to the rec list: the astros know when their name is called.
But that makes it even more important to preserve the voice of sanity there, even though that voice seldom makes it to the rec list, IMHO.

Got me thinking (4.00 / 1)
About the original Maxwell equations.  Then Tesla and Heaviside.
"All the power you would ever need from a thing running in your basement forever".
Richard Hoagland.

Whatever you do to others you also do to yourself!

speaking of Physics (4.00 / 5)

Let the Games Begin !

Or is that, End?

Finally?

Maybe, Let the "Change" Begin ...

"The press is impotent when it abandons itself to falsehood." --Thomas Jefferson to Thomas Seymour, 1807


lol... I've been laughing at the strangest (4.00 / 3)
things these days. It's just so un-credible.

Thanks for the laugh...  


[ Parent ]
thank you Toque for this excellent piece (4.00 / 4)
Im so impressed with the way you were able to grab a lot of loose ends, loose comments & sentiments here over the past week+, and put it all together into a coherent and princely sum. I think you've framed it really well.

I think we, the left of left, are (have been) the 'canary in the coal mine'. Some more sensitive than others to the toxic fumes. Some with more experience and more finely tuned Bullshit Detectors. And many just with a lot of heart.

But all recognizing clusterfuck when we smell it.

This is a tipping point, all this Health Insurance Reform Handout mess. And it came so quick on the heels of the Afghan escalation. Stunning.

If Bush/Cheney was the Titanic, this encore is the ... well... its epic. Cue Jaws music: Just when you thought it was safe...

Remember the amazing coincidence, timing wise, of Captain Sully and the plane crash landing in the Hudson in January?

Brace for impact.

Little did we know.

No justice, no peace.


Where are these front lines you speak of? (4.00 / 1)
As a result, Docudharma generates relatively little change. Mostly, we are all here agreeing with each other and confirming and refining each other's views.

Understand, I am not implying that this is not valuable. It is, especially to those out fighting on the front lines every day. It's a nice place to come home to.

But you are not going to have much impact here. That's just a fact. If you want to have an impact, and cause more change, you have to increase the force.

What do you claim to be doing that the rest of us are not?

All that campaign cash buys a lot of stupid.


I might mention at this point... (4.00 / 6)
that we have over 74K Page Views per week which is 4K more than Booman Tribune.

"I like irony except I find that if you just toss your clothes in the dryer for a few minutes you hardly ever have to use it."- ek hornbeck

[ Parent ]
And the numbers would be even greater... (4.00 / 1)
if people weren't spending so much time fighting with idiots over at Dkos.

Don't misunderstand - there is nothing wrong with picking you spots over there, but advocating for an organized Dkos Jihad from our little base here in the Internet hinterland pretty much misses the point about what I believe this place is supposed to be about.

Drops in the ocean and all that, you know?

All that campaign cash buys a lot of stupid.


[ Parent ]
Umm.... (0.00 / 0)
I spend exactly zero time doing that.

"I like irony except I find that if you just toss your clothes in the dryer for a few minutes you hardly ever have to use it."- ek hornbeck

[ Parent ]
not saying you do (0.00 / 0)
But that's what this essay is recommending, no?

All that campaign cash buys a lot of stupid.

[ Parent ]
We let people post all kinds of things... (0.00 / 0)
and your reply was to me.

And as a matter of fact it has gone up because controversy sells.

So you are wrong all around.

"I like irony except I find that if you just toss your clothes in the dryer for a few minutes you hardly ever have to use it."- ek hornbeck


[ Parent ]
Oh, so that's the game huh? (0.00 / 0)
And as a matter of fact it has gone up because controversy sells.

Get DD people to intentionally mix it up on dKos so people get pissed off and come over here?

Right. I'll think I'll pass on that one if you don't mind.

We let people post all kinds of things...

What's that supposed to mean? Who said you didn't?

So you are wrong all around.

I don't think you even know what I'm talking about, but thanks anyway for your considered opinion.

All that campaign cash buys a lot of stupid.


[ Parent ]
I think you mistake me for someone else. (0.00 / 0)
Someone who has participated.

Not at all.

You could look it up.

So you are wrong all around.

Really.

"I like irony except I find that if you just toss your clothes in the dryer for a few minutes you hardly ever have to use it."- ek hornbeck


[ Parent ]
Mind explaining? (0.00 / 0)
So you are wrong all around.

Or are you just content to continue with your bad Armando impression?

I think you mistake me for someone else. Someone who has participated.

No, I mistook you for someone with whom I could have a reasonable discussion - especially after I already made it quite clear that my criticism isn't about you.



All that campaign cash buys a lot of stupid.


[ Parent ]
Of what? (4.00 / 1)
And I do a very good Armando impression if I remind you of him at all.

But I'll not insist on it.

"I like irony except I find that if you just toss your clothes in the dryer for a few minutes you hardly ever have to use it."- ek hornbeck


[ Parent ]
Heh. (4.00 / 2)
You're right.

I do a very good Armando impression

You do.

All I'm saying is that DD becomes a much better blog all around when we keep the focus on ourselves rather than on other blogs.

We've got a cool, new dynamic here.  Seems a shame to waste all this good blogging energy in too many other places.

All that campaign cash buys a lot of stupid.


[ Parent ]
Excellent, I learned, you convinced me, (0.00 / 0)
thanks.

PS
Roarrrrrrrrr!

"This health care system is a moral atrocity." Dr. RalphDog (on blog)


Having recently expanded my research toward gaining real (4.00 / 3)
knowledge about the key issues we face, I've seen that there are millions of people out there with the same overall viewpoints expressed on this blog.  DK is nothing in the scheme of things, absolutely nothing, except a tool now used by the political system to keep the activists busy with bullshit that doesn't matter.  I have disregarded that site, and I think it would be wise for this blog to disregard it as well, in the assumption of working on issues rather than democratic party goals.  

I think i'm beginning to see a shift over there (4.00 / 5)
Dean & Markos were a wake up call. Tell the truth. For some losing Obama to the other side is going to be a bad motherfucking pill to swallow.

Great Diary Toc

'The first panacea for a mismanaged nation is inflation of the currency; the second is war. Both bring a temporary prosperity; both bring a permanent ruin. But both are the refuge of political and economic opportunists.' Hemingway


Red Lights Went Off For Me..... (4.00 / 1)
...when during the 08 campaign Obama said basically positive things about Reagan's term. For those who lived through Reagan it was the rise of the jingoistic simpleton...nothing positive at all.

Authoritarian political ideologies have a vested interest in promoting fear. ----Susan Sontag

[ Parent ]
Newtonian physics is limited to certain degrees of scale (4.00 / 1)
anyway ... it is very limited in the micro and (I believe) the macro world.

Complex systems also fall under different "laws" or I should say patterns in observable phenomena can be fairly "strange" and chaotic (in both senses of the word).

Still, what you say is appropriate. Better would be to go to the great political writers like Machiavelli and that would help us understand what is going on now.

DKOS is a very political place and they are, or have been, playing for high stakes. There's a lot more riding on what gets recommended there that what gets recommended here. The operatives have to steer the dialogue at DKOS because the site is a Democratic Party site and KOS is a politician and all that implies.

Yes, go over there and fight. I agree. I will even try, distasteful though it is.

Visit me at Sacred Bells


er hem. that tipping point I referred to? (4.00 / 3)
Hello... its here and within that D, also here (esp consider the poster, a long time supporter of BHO but not a "bot"). And this one too.

(NOTE I dont really like to link D's and comments from orange to here like this, but Im saying to look at it in the larger context that Toque's essay here addresses.)

No justice, no peace.


a dansac diary fell off the recent diary list (4.00 / 1)
today as well...not rec'd up

'The first panacea for a mismanaged nation is inflation of the currency; the second is war. Both bring a temporary prosperity; both bring a permanent ruin. But both are the refuge of political and economic opportunists.' Hemingway

[ Parent ]
one thing I sorta dont get (4.00 / 1)
is that the hard core kossacks seem to totally adore both Meteor Blades and OPOL. Of course, both are excellent writers and neither has ever engaged in brutal bloody mudslinging (AFAIK), so that helps... heh... but they are both very Hard Left. And a lot of folks have affection for buhdy too. So... just makes ya go hmmmm.

markos is a different story, he's more into the sports end of electoral politics, imho.

I dont know. MB and OPOL have always been Lefties, consistently, and they didnt come to blogging because of Obama. They are issues-based and issues-driven, and values. They wont GBCW b/c of "Obama" either.

That said, for as much as they are admired, I dont honestly know how much they shape the progressive views of readers, or if they impact the sphere or set the tone. I hope they do.


No justice, no peace.


[ Parent ]
I think both of them, OPOL and MB have a great deal of (4.00 / 2)
influence on those who are going in with eyes wide open. Perhaps with today's events they will put out some excellent work in the next few days. I think there have been many that came just because of Obama and I think many of them are waking up today to the reality that our government is broken. It is bought and paid for and Obama  represents what the real power brokers are wielding. For him to cave as dramatically as he has in the past few months is a wake up call for many of them...

'The first panacea for a mismanaged nation is inflation of the currency; the second is war. Both bring a temporary prosperity; both bring a permanent ruin. But both are the refuge of political and economic opportunists.' Hemingway

[ Parent ]
Yeah, I logged in to say -- whoa, different over there (4.00 / 2)
today. Totally.

I'd guess Markos' comment opened the door to this.

"This health care system is a moral atrocity." Dr. RalphDog (on blog)


[ Parent ]
WOW -- great work! DK is totally different today. (4.00 / 3)
You don't mess around when you post an essay do you?


"This health care system is a moral atrocity." Dr. RalphDog (on blog)

One example: (4.00 / 3)
No One Is Going To Save You Fools

The first thing you need to understand about healthcare reform is what Jane Hamsher identified long ago: nothing--absolutely nothing--is going to trump the White House's deal with PhRMA and the insurance industry.  The question you need to ask yourselves is: why?  If you're intellectually mature enough to get past "personal betrayal" as your best answer, you'll be on the right track.

While you ponder that one, you might want to also consider why nothing has been done--nor will anything serious actually be done--about financial industry reform.  Standing up to the financial industry in the current political environment should be a no-brainer.  So what in the heck is going on here?  If you can think past shadowy conspiracy theories and possible personal enrichment for the Obama family, you'll be doing the kind of thinking that will help actually solve the problem.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/...


"This health care system is a moral atrocity." Dr. RalphDog (on blog)


[ Parent ]
I loved this diary btw (4.00 / 1)


'The first panacea for a mismanaged nation is inflation of the currency; the second is war. Both bring a temporary prosperity; both bring a permanent ruin. But both are the refuge of political and economic opportunists.' Hemingway

[ Parent ]
What's weird about that (4.00 / 2)
is that thereisnospoon has been a monster ASSHOLE lately, backing up the Obamabots.

Then he goes and writes that.

It's weird.



"Never let a serious crisis go to waste. What I mean by that is it's an opportunity to do things you couldn't do before." -- Rahm Emanuel


[ Parent ]
That was acomplete 180 (4.00 / 1)
weird indeed but refreshing

"By the pricking of my thumb, something wicked this way comes.", Wm. Shakespeare, "Macbeth"

[ Parent ]
He's better when he goes figurative (0.00 / 0)
He's actually a nice guy in person.

mbr + dv + woyg

[ Parent ]
It's an absolutely awesome diary (4.00 / 1)
Something everyone should read.



"Never let a serious crisis go to waste. What I mean by that is it's an opportunity to do things you couldn't do before." -- Rahm Emanuel


[ Parent ]
Some of us AREN'T Dem... (4.00 / 1)
We are Independent.

We fight for what we believe to be right, regardless of which Party says it.

I didn't believe a fight would be productive when buhdy asked it then, I don't believe it now.

We don't NEED a fight because we are right, only to win the fights that come to us BECAUSE we are right.

The "rule of law"; it applies to you and me, but not the rich, the Republican or the celebrity. Welcome to America!  aka... Motley Patriot


I have never seen such (4.00 / 2)
pushback against botism on GOS as I have today.  It is won-der-ful.

After a long hiatus, I put up a diary at GOS in April, focused on pushing back against the Afghan ramp-up.  The Dem warhawks descended on me like vultures.  Some anti-war folks jumped in and helped me fend 'em off, but we were outnumbered two to one.

Things are much better now.  Anti-occupation/escalation diaries are hitting the rec list.  The war hawks come out, but are repelled at nearly every turn.  THEY are the  ones outnumbered, now.  It's way overdue, but good to see.  

BWD put up a non-photo adulation diary today.  He went ballistic on slink, got HRed for it, and ran away from his own diary, which never got close to the rec list.

Woot!

A few give much, a few give all, but most Americans give.....NOTHING!  Support our troops~~~~Bring them home.


I wouldn't worry too much about (4.00 / 2)
the blackwaterdog diaries.  He's just one diarist.

I'd put more stock in the fact that the site's actual bigwigs (Markos and Meteor Blades) are both opposed to the escalation, and usually write very cogent and substantive arguments explaining why.


[ Parent ]
I don't worry about (4.00 / 3)
'em at all.

It's unusual to see one of his diaries NOT go to the rec list.

And he went ballistic on slink, got HRed, and ran off from his own diary!  This is astonishing!  The bots are being shot out of the air!

A few give much, a few give all, but most Americans give.....NOTHING!  Support our troops~~~~Bring them home.


[ Parent ]
I just read that (4.00 / 1)
It was glorious.

mbr + dv + woyg

[ Parent ]
I call it "Obama porn" (4.00 / 2)
Because, well, that's what it is.

"Never let a serious crisis go to waste. What I mean by that is it's an opportunity to do things you couldn't do before." -- Rahm Emanuel

[ Parent ]
It's potentially more than that (4.00 / 1)
It's only a few steps away from dear-leaderism, just like the fellation of Bush and Reagan and Kennedy.

mbr + dv + woyg

[ Parent ]
Oh, I don't think it's a few steps away at all (4.00 / 2)
I think it's right on the money, "up to 11", full bore, pedal to the metal "dear-leaderism".

Scary, actually.

But today seems to have deflated it rather .... suddenly.

Although I think they're all hitting the "denial" stage now.

Only four more stages to go.  Yipee.



"Never let a serious crisis go to waste. What I mean by that is it's an opportunity to do things you couldn't do before." -- Rahm Emanuel


[ Parent ]
Well, that's why I said "potentially" (4.00 / 1)
True dear-leaderism wouldn't take its ball and go home like that chickenshit porn artist. It would stomp on the terra like Stalin taught 'em how back in the day.

As for the 4 remaining stages, well...blog-time goes faster, doesn't it?

mbr + dv + woyg


[ Parent ]
It's Obama porn, all right (4.00 / 1)
and the point I'm making is that the Head Porn Purveyor Hisself (albeit in a text diary, not a pornfoto-fest) had his diary shot out of the air, going to the ground in flames! and he even bailed out of it!

Remarkable!

And, a multitude of diaries, which criticized the HCR fail, ruled the day.

More remarkable!

I agree 100% with buhdy.  GOS is the place to push! back! hard!  It's only getting easier to do it, compared with the status quo back in April.  

A few give much, a few give all, but most Americans give.....NOTHING!  Support our troops~~~~Bring them home.


[ Parent ]
and, agree 100% with (4.00 / 1)
Tocque!  It's hard work, and I'm not up to it everyday, but it's moving the ball in the right direction.  ; - )

A few give much, a few give all, but most Americans give.....NOTHING!  Support our troops~~~~Bring them home.

[ Parent ]
Been there from the start, not to back slap... (4.00 / 5)
but to mix it up and provide information that, hopefully, some will learn from.

In the long run, however, so much of what happens on the net is white noise.  People take themselves too seriously, as if writing diaries and comments has some magic quality.

In fact, I am starting to see the internet as a negative thing when it comes to people power.  In the past, people had no choice other than associating on a personal basis, to meet and take to the streets.  Now, we can be so lazy, and we believe that an email to Congressman X, or signing an online petition, will work wonders.  I think, overall, this impersonal approach takes us farther from the participation needed for a healthy democracy, and that is why, to a large extent, democracy in America and elsewhere is stale and on the verge of failure.

The internet is a great tool to obtain information, but as a means to bring real change, it gets a D from this grader.


I think we need to find out how to build better (0.00 / 0)
online resources for people who do meet personally - OFA has this as basically just a quick place for people to get in touch with one another, extra-party progressives need the same thing. We need a way to connect the pamphleteers to the activists and organizers.

Indymedia does a good job but there could be better ways, at least I think.  


[ Parent ]
Woot! have you seen the (4.00 / 3)
results of the poll in this diary?

http://www.dailykos.com/story/...

A few give much, a few give all, but most Americans give.....NOTHING!  Support our troops~~~~Bring them home.


WOW! (4.00 / 3)
I didn't read the diary yet, I'm kind a in over my head in other things today but WOW

Dean 8%

Obama 91%

I truly hope someone has the audacity to send that to Obama & Rahm

"By the pricking of my thumb, something wicked this way comes.", Wm. Shakespeare, "Macbeth"


[ Parent ]
oh like they care (4.00 / 3)
lol

My impression is that people are unsubbing from teh OFA list like crazy, enough to be noticed fer shure. The polls reflecting a drop in Approval Ratings, yup. Then Axelrod phones it in yesterday to the Monring Joe Show? yeah, Id say theyre squirmy.

mcjoan had a piece about a Conference Call BHO Team did with "bloggers", then I saw over at FDL they were not invited. hunh.

The writing is on the wall. Id say in dayglo krylon.

Not that the current admin gives a rats ass about what The Left thinks.

No justice, no peace.


[ Parent ]
PS re that Conference Call (4.00 / 2)
Huff Po took the bait and spinned it for them:  heres their headline on it, the SAME Call.

White House Will Try To Pull Health Care Bill Closer To House's Version


No justice, no peace.

[ Parent ]
Reform Immigration -
March for America
Sunday, March 21
 

March on Washington
Saturday, March 20
 

 

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