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I have not left Docudharma

by: Jay Elias

Sat Oct 06, 2007 at 12:47:04 PDT        
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It seems that there is a post at political flesh feast claiming that I have "left" Docudharma.  That is not the case.  I don't know why a person posted that I have.  Whoever did so seems to be imitating pinche tejano, who has left DD, but whom I have not spoken with.

Since I been made aware of the existence of this post about me at PFF, I'll proceed to answer a few things that came up there below the fold.
Jay Elias :: I have not left Docudharma
First of all, I have not left this site or Daily Kos.  I have no intention of doing either.  Should I eventually do so, I will inform the site admins here.

Second, I am not a site admin here.  I do have contributing editor status (or whatever we call it) meaning I can post on the FP or promote other posts.  I am not involved in the admin or rules of this site whatsoever.  I am not involved in DD's I/P site policy, nor have I given any input into any bannings of any posters.  In regards to one poster (mattes) I inquired as to why she had not been reinstated, since initially I was aware of only a two-day suspension.  Budhy told me that she could be reinstated by emailing him.  Not being aware of the particulars of the circumstances of her suspension or that of anyone else, I have not commented on those decisions. 

Further, I don't plan to comment on them.  Like at dKos, I have some relationship with many of the admins.  Also likewise, those admins do not seek my input into their administrative choices.  Since they do not ask, I do not give it.  If I want my own blog to run how I think one should be, I can have it.  At the blogs of others, I respect their liberty to make decisions as they choose.  If they want my input, they can have it.  If others wish to ask me my opinion, my email address has always been available, and they can ask.  Since no one asks, my assumption, honestly, is that no one is interested.

I hope that clears up any misconceptions caused.  Of course, as always, people are free to ask me whatever they like, and I will endeavor to answer them as honestly as possible in a timely fashion.
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I have not left Docudharma | 72 comments
don't let (4.00 / 13)
anonymous pseudonyms run you ragged.
Agreed (4.00 / 3)
You should heed that advice too you know.

"as usual, . . . analytical and calm"  
[ Parent ]
you lost me. (0.00 / 0)
I'm not sure what you mean.
[ Parent ]
You get worked up yourself (4.00 / 1)
sometimes.

I meant it in a friendly way.

"as usual, . . . analytical and calm"  

[ Parent ]
ha! (4.00 / 2)
that's true.
[ Parent ]
I never do of course (4.00 / 3)
[ Parent ]
Well, in that case, (4.00 / 10)
you may want to be on the look out for a poster using your UID, who has been a little crabby, from time to time.
[ Parent ]
Probably Big Tent Dharmacrat (4.00 / 2)
[meteoric rise and fall yesterday]

"We can't change the country. Let us change the subject." Stephen Dedalus in Ulysses, by James Joyce(1922).  
[ Parent ]
That guy......whew.....he's out there ;) (4.00 / 1)

[ Parent ]
No, not that stump jumper. (0.00 / 0)

[ Parent ]
Translation? Not a legal (0.00 / 0)
term of art.

"We can't change the country. Let us change the subject." Stephen Dedalus in Ulysses, by James Joyce(1922).  
[ Parent ]
Term of endearment. (0.00 / 0)
Sort of like a frog jumper, or leap frogger.  Only, stump jumping is easier due to the stumps don't move.  I meant no offense.
[ Parent ]
That really clears it all up! (0.00 / 0)


"We can't change the country. Let us change the subject." Stephen Dedalus in Ulysses, by James Joyce(1922).  
[ Parent ]
My bad.. (0.00 / 0)
I should have put the first post in quotes.  It is from my all time favorite movie, "Raising Arizona".
[ Parent ]
Not gonna.... (4.00 / 10)
...but easier to write one answer than to reply to a dozen emails.

"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false face for the urge to rule it." ~ H.L. Mencken
[ Parent ]
THis is a great line: (4.00 / 1)
Since no one asks, my assumption, honestly, is that no one is interested.


"We can't change the country. Let us change the subject." Stephen Dedalus in Ulysses, by James Joyce(1922).  
[ Parent ]
Thanks... (4.00 / 2)
...and I mean it sincerely.

There is this rather bizarre assumption that it seems many people have in the dKos/DD/pff/MLW world, which is that simply because I (or anyone) can post about anything at all, that I post everything that I think or feel about any situation anyplace online.  Which is not the case.  Not only do I not know about most of it, but about much of it I see no reason to say anything.  Not every opinion needs to be expressed by me.

"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false face for the urge to rule it." ~ H.L. Mencken

[ Parent ]
Refreshing. (0.00 / 0)


"We can't change the country. Let us change the subject." Stephen Dedalus in Ulysses, by James Joyce(1922).  
[ Parent ]
I think we should have I/P diairies (4.00 / 8)
I think it should be understood what they will be. They can not be moderated.

OT I know. Just thought I would mention it.

"as usual, . . . analytical and calm"  

I tend to agree... (4.00 / 6)
...the one thing that I expressed might improve things in them to Hunter when he asked at DK was to suspend user ratings of posts in any diary with an I/P tag.  I think that making I/P ratings-free might improve things to a degree.

That being said, it isn't my blog.

"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false face for the urge to rule it." ~ H.L. Mencken

[ Parent ]
Great idea! (4.00 / 4)
Indeed, it would be good to put up one of those a day, just sort of a steam release where people can just go off.

"as usual, . . . analytical and calm"  
[ Parent ]
My other idea... (4.00 / 4)
...which I've never mentioned to anyone before, is that someone ought to just start a blog like this about nothing but I/P.  There is clearly an audience for something like that, and I feel that it would remedy a lot of the frustrations with how the various other political sites handle it.

"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false face for the urge to rule it." ~ H.L. Mencken
[ Parent ]
That is also (4.00 / 2)
a great idea.

It is not clear to me why YOU don't do it.

Hell, you should do it with Mattes.

"as usual, . . . analytical and calm"  

[ Parent ]
Lack of time and computer know-how... (4.00 / 1)
...mostly.  I haven't a clue how to set up a blog except at blogger.  And even if I did know how to do it, or found someone who was willing to do most of the tech stuff for me, I can't see how I'd find the time to run it.

But also, honestly, I don't find myself having lots to write about regarding I/P.  If I started my own blog, I'd be far more tempted to do one about libertarian Democrats than about I/P.  And finally, I am deeply unsure that I want the kind of public status that a person with that level of blogging impact would have.  I lack the public profile of someone like you or buhdy.  If I had wanted to make a public life for myself regarding Israel, I could have done so.  I don't see that choice as any more appealing now.

"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false face for the urge to rule it." ~ H.L. Mencken

[ Parent ]
It would have to be one for each 'side' (4.00 / 2)
If you just put up one, the argument would be over who the essay was slanted towards.

Reality is the result of war between two rival groups of programmers,

so....Roar Louder!!!

[ Parent ]
Suggestion: select several people (0.00 / 0)
with proven expertise, writing ability, and level-headedness (representative of each side] to write side by side essays.  Encourage anyone who wishes to somment.  That way people like me who would like to read the essays could skip the comments if they become too vitriolic (is the Pope German?). 

"We can't change the country. Let us change the subject." Stephen Dedalus in Ulysses, by James Joyce(1922).  
[ Parent ]
That is a great idea! (4.00 / 4)
I think that plus limiting each side to a diary a day are good suggestions.

We may be able to solve this yet!

Reality is the result of war between two rival groups of programmers,

so....Roar Louder!!!

[ Parent ]
because certain people (4.00 / 2)
tend to make i/p about them, and because of the poison they can bring to sites, i've always thought there should be a special area for them- people can go there, if they so choose, but they don't take over the site. the only rules, then, would be about personal attacks, racism/bigotry, advocation of violence. we originally discussed trying to have such an area, but it's not in the software.

the glory, the love, the madness.
[ Parent ]
Not a software issue it seems to me (0.00 / 0)
You just declare those threads a free for all.

"as usual, . . . analytical and calm"  
[ Parent ]
And you suspend anyone who ratres in those threads (0.00 / 0)
[ Parent ]
well, one problem (4.00 / 4)
particularly with a new blog, where it takes very few recs to make the rec list, is that certain people rec anything that supports their view on the subject, and suddenly the rec list is constantly full of i/p- as happened at mlw. that tends to chase a lot of people off the site.

i was thinking more in terms of tabs- broad subject matter tabs, but also one specifically for i/p, or for particularly controversial and divisive topics, including i/p.

the glory, the love, the madness.

[ Parent ]
there already is such a place that can handle it (2.50 / 2)
where ratings do nothing at all and everyone can say anything short of criminality. You could make a deal with peeder to host the ip debates (hell you can do it anyway without his permission and he still won't ban you) and limit ip diaries here to simply a title with a link to where the debate is taking place.

The net is distributed, why not use it that way rather than reinvent the wheel.

[ Parent ]
This is a discussion (0.00 / 0)
about how this site can handle it.

I am not sure what the purpose of your suggestion would be.

If you think it should be discussed there, then write a diary there.

"as usual, . . . analytical and calm"  

[ Parent ]
you can't handle it (2.50 / 2)
as long as you ban participants and it will spill over into the rest of the site no matter what you do. You would also have to reinvent the wheel technologically, trying to have ratings count outside of ip diaries but not inside them.

You're trying to have free expression and limit it at the same time. Not going to work. Not with such an explosive topic. It completely derailed mlw. Do you think you can do better? I'm suggesting that you outsource it.

The web is distributed but liberal blogs are more like islands. Cooperation even with those you don't like but in areas where you can agree would help everyone.

[ Parent ]
Given that we are discussing (4.00 / 1)
ways to handle it HERE, that is why your comment is offbase.

You are talking about it being discussed SOMEWHERE ELSE.

If that is a the solution, then it would not be discussed at this site. Sort of defeats the purpose of the discussion.

"as usual, . . . analytical and calm"  

[ Parent ]
Realistically, he does have a point. (2.50 / 2)
The I/P hatred will spill out of the I/P threads no matter what you do.

Republicans: We're still proud of America!
[ Parent ]
That simply is not the case (0.00 / 0)
[ Parent ]
How can you possibly prevent the I/P factions (0.00 / 0)
from holding ratings wars outside of the I/P threads, assuming that you allow them to post and rate outside of the I/P threads.

I don't think a stern look and an admonishment not to be bad is going to keep such a heated group at bay.  But hey, give it a try if you want.

Republicans: We're still proud of America!

[ Parent ]
Of course a stern look is not enough (4.00 / 1)
Suspensions will be necessary.

"as usual, . . . analytical and calm"  
[ Parent ]
Suspensions for using the ratings system outside I/P threads? (0.00 / 0)
Seems somewhat arbitrary and open to abuse by those in power, no?

Republicans: We're still proud of America!
[ Parent ]
All power (0.00 / 0)
[ Parent ]
On that we are agreed. (0.00 / 0)
[ Parent ]
the net is a distributed system (1.00 / 1)
liberal blogs are not but there's no reason it needs to stay that way.

My comment did address a way of handling it here, by using stub diaries that point to where the actual discussion takes place, hopefully at multiple sites. Like pbs broadcasting debates at different universities, or as a way of keeping track of where they are taking place. It brings more page views than not having it at all.

To reiterate, your rules here will not work with ip debate and it will spill over into the rest of the site just like mlw. I really don't see what is so complicated. You're not blazing a new trail here. Simply put, ip diaries necessitate either bannings and limitation of debate, which eventually devolves into either one sided debate or banning to topic entirely, or a policy of no bannings and no ratings, and no retaliation.

What I was suggesting was a middle ground between banning the discussion altogether or allowing it and the ensuing chaos - having stub diaries that point to where the discussion is taking place. That way people still come here but it is moderated elsewhere. You could even put it in an iframe so the user stays here. Either way, having your site be the place people check for it drives your traffic up.

[ Parent ]
Why can't the stub diary (4.00 / 1)
be commented here?

The proposal being discussed is to have DIFFERENT rules in those diaries.

Personally, if the fight is kept in the thread there then what's the problem?

I think you have a solution in search of a problem.

There is no need for your solution.

As for traffic, who gives a shit about traffic? Neither this place nor pff are ever going to be significant traffic sites (sorry Buhdy).

The discussion is about what kind of site you want to run.

I have always felt and argued and seen that, despite what any one wants to pretend, I/P discussions are always unmanageable. Always. There is no issue, none, that compares.

Now you can choose to not have them or you can choose to have them, give fair warning, and leave them unmoderated.

I always felt you let people have it out as they like. SO LONG AS they keep it in that thread. And I would be VERY strict on that part of the policy. If it ever spilled out, I would come down hard on those that did the spilling. 

"as usual, . . . analytical and calm"  

[ Parent ]
my understanding of soapblox (1.00 / 1)
is that commenting can be turned off for specific diaries - I could be wrong. And I don't care at all what gets hosted at pff (or elsewhere) - I don't like ip debates and do not participate in them, but I see it as a central problem that must be discussed. Dkos shut out half the debate - unbelievable and deplorable. You shut it off altogether - not as bad but not good either.

I'm arguing for a distributed blog model as a general concept but I think you see things only in a top down fashion.

You're talking about re-experimenting with free expression while arbitrarily limiting it. You don't see the contradiction? It can't work. The only other option I see is outsourcing it, which can give you just enough distance from the brawl that you may be able to keep it from spilling over into other areas of dd.

[ Parent ]
This is um (0.00 / 0)
I'm arguing for a distributed blog model as a general concept but I think you see things only in a top down fashion.

Having no rules is a top down decision you know. What if the majority WANT rules? Honestly, these busswords you use are no helpful.

You're talking about re-experimenting with free expression while arbitrarily limiting it.

More empty buzzwords. How in blazes am I doing that? Speak plainly and specifically please.

You don't see the contradiction?

more silliness. It is like me describing your discussion in this fashion - "Ypu are simultaneously advocating for white and black at the same time? Don't you see the contradiction?" That would be me ASSERTING that you are doing that without pointing out where you argue for black and white simultaneously. Sadly, I see this style of discussion all too often. NOT interested.

Night.

"as usual, . . . analytical and calm"  

[ Parent ]
meh (1.00 / 1)
"silliness"
"empty buzzwords"

capricious ad hominem labeling.

In a way you're right though. Talking with you about this is not useful.

[ Parent ]
Sigh (0.00 / 0)
You will not read.

So be it.

"as usual, . . . analytical and calm"  

[ Parent ]
oh... (1.00 / 1)
and thanks for making sure I know the arbitrary limits of this conversation...sheesh.
[ Parent ]
Calm down (0.00 / 0)
you get discuss anything you like.

And I can comment on what you write in response.

That is what happened. Stop acting oppressed.

"as usual, . . . analytical and calm"  

[ Parent ]
This is a good idea (4.00 / 1)
No rating, no banning, done as sort of an I/P "fight club" to keep it from consuming the blog.
[ Parent ]
I know that the ability to talk about .. (0.00 / 0)
... intellectual property issues, open source versus public domain versus proprietary ... is something I value highly, but not highly enough to stomp off in disgust.

Support Lesbian creative works, 100% Yuri from ALC Press
[ Parent ]
here's the link to the diary (4.00 / 1)
on pff claiming Jay has left us.

Now it's been updated.

http://politicalfles...

but jay (4.00 / 8)
you really want to leave us- as does everyone! you just don't have the courage of your convictions!

something untrue was posted at pff? wow! just wow!


the glory, the love, the madness.

Well, what can I say? (4.00 / 4)
I'm a moral coward.  Which was the whole point of going looking for the wizard in the first place.

"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false face for the urge to rule it." ~ H.L. Mencken
[ Parent ]
Hey Jay (0.00 / 0)
I can't find your e-mail.

Where can I get it? Want to give you my phone number for next week.

"as usual, . . . analytical and calm"  

[ Parent ]
huh... (0.00 / 0)
...it is eozproductions at hotmail.

"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false face for the urge to rule it." ~ H.L. Mencken
[ Parent ]
Where should I have looked? (4.00 / 1)
I thought it was in my contact list.

"as usual, . . . analytical and calm"  
[ Parent ]
Oh, I have no idea... (0.00 / 0)
....I mean, I know it is on my profile page, but I dunno where you might have had it.

"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false face for the urge to rule it." ~ H.L. Mencken
[ Parent ]
The ore I read this, the funnier it gets. (4.00 / 2)


"We can't change the country. Let us change the subject." Stephen Dedalus in Ulysses, by James Joyce(1922).  
[ Parent ]
It's on his page (0.00 / 0)
Diaries  Comments  Recent Replies  Ratings  Recommended Diaries
Username:  Jay Elias
PersonId:  19
Created:  Tue Aug 21, 2007 at 22:33:13 MDT
Jay Elias's RSS Feed
Email: eozproductions at hotmail dot com

Or, were you being sarcastic (I'm so confused now).

Bush Sucks!

[ Parent ]
LOL (4.00 / 8)
"I know my opponent is not a pig fucker....I just want to hear him DENY he is not a pig fucker!"

Those little scamps!

Reality is the result of war between two rival groups of programmers,

so....Roar Louder!!!

LBJ, right? ;-) (4.00 / 1)


"In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." - H. L. Mencken
[ Parent ]
Tough crowd over there! (4.00 / 3)
*Staightens tie like Rodney Dangerfield*

"In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." - H. L. Mencken
Thought not restricted to how to (4.00 / 2)
permit I/P diaries w/o blowing up the blog:  last night I clicked the link to a 2004 DK diary.  What happened to all those commenters?  Also, very little mojo on the comments.  Kind of refreshing.  Maybe just get rid of the rec list and mojo all together.

"We can't change the country. Let us change the subject." Stephen Dedalus in Ulysses, by James Joyce(1922).  
oh, but then we wouldn't know (4.00 / 2)
what and who we are supposed to like.

"I don't know where the thing I make pretend leaves off and the thing that's really there starts up."
[ Parent ]
I'm a loser (4.00 / 1)
I blow in there too frequently and only read the fp and rec list!
[ Parent ]
The only reason I even look at the rec list (4.00 / 1)
at DK is to make sure I haven't missed Bob Johnson's latest.

"We can't change the country. Let us change the subject." Stephen Dedalus in Ulysses, by James Joyce(1922).  
[ Parent ]
I'm bummed, I never even had the chance (4.00 / 2)
to incorrectly miss you, and I would of!  I don't read pff.  For one, Buddhism works great on me and I do usually get what I focus on in spades.....just ask Mr. gravel pit ;)  For two, priorities I suppose.
hey Jay! (4.00 / 1)
boy, when i saw that yesterday, i was feeling overdone...

then when i really saw the poster's name, i thought no way...

glad you're still here

Well the first man comes along that can read Latin is welcome to rob us, far as I'm concerned. I'd like a chance t' shoot at a educated man once in my life. Gus McCrae, Lonesome Dove

Imitation is best form of flattery (4.00 / 1)
except when done by a hack.

Meh, Jay, all I got say, you know it can't be me if it's done in under four hundred words.

But what we all can learn from this that there are people who pay a lot of attention to who else we talk to in the meta.

I just wish my doppleganger had better writing skills. Oh wells.

Just dropping a quick carrier pigeon into the interwebs letting you know the obvious, that that wasn't me.


Chaotic Neutral, Drinker of Milkshakes

Pinche Tejano

Oh, I knew..... (0.00 / 0)
...but always nice to see you.

It was fairly obviously a fraud. 

"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false face for the urge to rule it." ~ H.L. Mencken

[ Parent ]
I have not left Docudharma | 72 comments
 

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